NAMM 2017 Historic Line

[indravayu]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see how Gibson continually reinventing the Historic line is anything special.

Gibson has always done this and I'd suggest that a lot of folks look forward to hearing about/seeing the new specs every year, just like with new cars.

 

[Deadletteroffice]

Thanks for posting all this OP . Nice looking guitars for sure .Those Freddy King 345's are fat necked , a few are already listed on Dave's Site .
The Frost Blue is also these(or was) but with a thinner 64 neck . I guess Gibson heard those who asked for some Fat Neck gits ....

The TH spec upgrades to The Historic line was posted , Here is what Music Zoo posted last week ....It's no longer up , but I did copy and save it for posting .....
So you liked the new (whatever was done) we TH owners have been talking about ????? Told you so ,,,, Whatever Gibson has done with these, if the guitar is good , it's seems to be special .... I can see keeping mine a very long time ....


Quoted from MZ:

"NAMM 2017
New and exciting things are going down at the Gibson Custom Shop. Specs are being rearranged, necks and tops are changing shapes, and everything is lined up to come out fantastic. You can pre-order these guitars starting right now from The Music Zoo. Here is the low-down about what is coming out of the Historic division of the Gibson Custom Shop for 2017! Stay tuned for pictures as the guitars arrive in the store.

Features of what we knew as 2016 Standard and True Historics are being condensed into one single series where all new 2017 Historic Reissue Les Pauls will feature:

– The Carmelita top carve profile
-All ’54, ’56, ’57, and ’58 Historic Reissues have ’59 neck profiles
– All hide-glue construction and nitrocellulose lacquer finishes with aniline dye
– True Historic parts including pickguard, pickup rings, switch washer, tip, knobs, pickup covers, and jack plate.
– Historic accurate serial numbers (no “R” at the beginning of the serial)
– Rolled Fretboard Binding
– Solid Indian rosewood fretboard
– Solid one-piece mahogany neck with Historic long neck tenon
– Holly Headstock Veneer
– Custombucker Pickups
-Finishes include Antique Gold, Dirty Lemon (replacing Lemon Burst), Faded Tobacco, Iced Tea, and Washed Cherry

-The street price for 1954 through 1958 Historic Reissue Les Pauls in both Gloss and VOS finishes are $4,699.

-The street price for 1959 through 1960 Historic Reissue Les Pauls in both Gloss and VOS finishes are $6,499.

In addition to these exciting Historic Reissue guitars, we’ll also be getting in Music Zoo exclusive Roasted Historic Reissue guitars where in addition to these new 2017 Historic specs, the bodies and necks of these guitars will have undergone a roasting process which removes excess moisture – giving these guitars a played-in sound more akin to real vintage instruments, as well as making them more stable when being exposed to changing weather."

Well that would explain why all the necks felt like R9 necks to me. They ARE all R9 necks.

 

[Sct13]

For me personally a new R8 would be the choice.

I think HM does amazing work but they are not building guitars. For the work they do I just can't get past their pricing, which in many cases is more than a new Historic.

I say HM only cuz I have one that might "need" the finish.....but if I didn't it would be a no brainer....New R8

 

[fretnot]

Not to sound redundant, but realistically, where is there left to go? The technology isn't changing like an automobile, so what else can they do to reinvent it? That's probably why there are all of these different (non-Les Paul) models being built. I think they are realizing the decline stage of the product life cycle, and are attempting to maximize as much as possible before it's too late.

 

[jenton70]

I submit that Gibson knew full and well going into 15-16 that they wouldn't sell as many of the new models. They came off their most successful run in a long time. 13/14 is the new 58/59 and they were fully aware of that. I mean they were making 2014 models for an extra year. But the well was drying up. So release a bizarre run of expensive TH models that would sell a little bit to die hards but would be produced in lower quantities. They knew the hardcore LP guys were pissed and wanted things back to the norm of 13/14. So why not regroup for 2017? It's basically a re-release of the 13/14 models with some TH plastics, etc. They're banking on us dusting off our wallets again. I think they'll do very well again this year. Dealers have been liquidating the current stock of 15/16 guitars for close to cost in anticipation of another big release.

 

[Drog]

Hmm, I might hold off on getting a used R7 and instead get a '17 R7 that has rolled neck binding and R9 neck profile.

 

[KBMelb]

B7 is in my future. I've been browsing used market but waiting to see '17s.

 

[indravayu]

I submit that Gibson knew full and well going into 15-16 that they wouldn't sell as many of the new models. They came off their most successful run in a long time. 13/14 is the new 58/59 and they were fully aware of that. I mean they were making 2014 models for an extra year. But the well was drying up. So release a bizarre run of expensive TH models that would sell a little bit to die hards but would be produced in lower quantities. They knew the hardcore LP guys were pissed and wanted things back to the norm of 13/14. So why not regroup for 2017? It's basically a re-release of the 13/14 models with some TH plastics, etc. They're banking on us dusting off our wallets again. I think they'll do very well again this year. Dealers have been liquidating the current stock of 15/16 guitars for close to cost in anticipation of another big release.

It's not a re-release of 2013/2014, though (why stop at 2014? They made the exact same guitar throughout 2015 and 2016; and why even include 2013, which is a transitional year and doesn't even feature all the specs of the 2014-2016s, most notably hide glue on the fretboards?), but rather the natural evolution of the 2016 Historic line, with the addition of most of the True Historic specs.

Many people want the TH specs, but don't want to pay the extra cash for it. Gibson is making them happy by transferring most of the TH specs to the Historic line, but keeping prices about the same as last year.

It's a positive development.

 

[rich85]

Take me back to the days when there was a difference in tops and necks for the models.

I dont think anybody had a problem with fat neck plain top R8's. They were the coolest.

 

[JMB1984]

It's not a re-release of 2013/2014, though (why stop at 2014? They made the exact same guitar throughout 2015 and 2016; and why even include 2013, which is a transitional year and doesn't even feature all the specs of the 2014-2016s, most notably hide glue on the fretboards?), but rather the natural evolution of the 2016 Historic line, with the addition of most of the True Historic specs.

Many people want the TH specs, but don't want to pay the extra cash for it. Gibson is making them happy by transferring most of the TH specs to the Historic line, but keeping prices about the same as last year.

It's a positive development.

People include the 13s because the hide glue for the fretboard was the only difference between the 13s and 14s (besides the change in the toggle switch emblem plate on the back which changes just about every year). Also there were 2013 serial numbers made at the end of the year call transition bursts that were made to 2014 specs with hide glued fretboards.

 

[grayd8]

They came off their most successful run in a long time. 13/14 is the new 58/59 and they were fully aware of that. I mean they were making 2014 models for an extra year. But the well was drying up. So release a bizarre run of expensive TH models that would sell a little bit to die hards but would be produced in lower quantities. They knew the hardcore LP guys were pissed and wanted things back to the norm of 13/14. So why not regroup for 2017? It's basically a re-release of the 13/14 models with some TH plastics, etc. They're banking on us dusting off our wallets again.

Worked for them on the USA line.

I want a R7 eventually, but with them sporting a R9 neck - what's the point?
I already have and R8 & R9 that does that.

 

[Sct13]

Yea if you want a real r7 youll need to go used...03's are great guitars!

 

[KBMelb]

My '14 R7 has a pretty thick neck. Definitely the thickest RI I've ever played. Makes my '54 feel like R0 v3. I played a TH7 that just felt ridiculous. It felt like it was under 8lbs and the neck was R9 or slimmer. Just felt so wrong.

 

[Mr.Paul]

First of alll I am not a Gibson basher. I am a truly believer that Gibson is building the best LP's in the last years and that there is no company out there getting the job better done.

BUT

I am really astonished that you folks take the new 2017 line without questioning.
Last year Gibson has spent a lot of time on money and marketing for the almigty TH specs.
Gibson claimed these guitars are so expensive because the construction is so demanding.
And now? The standard historic line features TH specs for 3 grands less?!
We are the folks which are willing to spend each year thousands of dollars for their premium product. But the marketing and strategy of Gibson in the last years really makes me loose interest in the company and in their premium product.
For me it looks like last years TH line was a product to milk their fan base customers.
And this really is not a fine behaviour of a company who wants to keep their fan base close.
There were just too many things happening in the last years and at least Gibson lost one fan!

 

[CaptainT]

Here´s some more info

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66EpkuTuaN8

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66EpkuTuaN8[/ame]

So you can have 3 different Top Carves in the M2M program, depending on what you like.

 

[joedonner2001]

But the marketing and strategy of Gibson in the last years really makes me loose interest in the company and in their premium product.
For me it looks like last years TH line was a product to milk their fan base customers.
And this really is not a fine behaviour of a company who wants to keep their fan base close.
There were just too many things happening in the last years and at least Gibson lost one fan!

But you're still here

Seriously, though - I agree. The True Historic marketing campaign (and even the choice of name) appeared to me at the time to be quite cynical. But I'm sensitive like that. Your choice whether you want to be milked or not.

From what I'm reading in this thread, though, I'm feeling a bit more positive. Which is probably their marketing department's full intention

 

[BigDipper15]

I like all the changes but there was a certain something I liked about the different models having different neck profiles and different tops etc.....

I haven't read every word of this thread but what TH specs will NOT be on the 17's?

 

[jamman]

I like all the changes but there was a certain something I liked about the different models having different neck profiles and different tops etc.....

I haven't read every word of this thread but what TH specs will NOT be on the 17's?

This is a start ,IMO . Hope it's helpful ....

http://www.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Gear-Tech/en-us/CS-Signature-Models-and-True-Historics.aspx

Some things ,are visible ,some not . I recall this article being longer and with more detail about the finishes used on the TH's, which you wont get on the 2017 Standard Historic line . It appears to have been condensed from it's original version .
Wood selection and finishes are the biggest differences . How much will that effect the final product ??? More for some ,less for others ....Nothing different then any year ,imo .

 

[BigDipper15]

This is a start ,IMO . Hope it's helpful ....

http://www.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Gear-Tech/en-us/CS-Signature-Models-and-True-Historics.aspx

Some things ,are visible ,some not . I recall this article being longer and with more detail about the finishes used on the TH's, which you wont get on the 2017 Standard Historic line . It appears to have been condensed from it's original version .
Wood selection and finishes are the biggest differences . How much will that effect the final product ??? More for some ,less for others ....Nothing different then any year ,imo .

So really the differences only arise once you get to the M2M, CC, artist models with the tops. As we all know any two pieces of mahogany and 1 piece of maple can be glues together to create magic or be terrible.

 

[Crotch]

First of alll I am not a Gibson basher. I am a truly believer that Gibson is building the best LP's in the last years and that there is no company out there getting the job better done.

BUT

I am really astonished that you folks take the new 2017 line without questioning.
Last year Gibson has spent a lot of time on money and marketing for the almigty TH specs.
Gibson claimed these guitars are so expensive because the construction is so demanding.
And now? The standard historic line features TH specs for 3 grands less?!
We are the folks which are willing to spend each year thousands of dollars for their premium product. But the marketing and strategy of Gibson in the last years really makes me loose interest in the company and in their premium product.
For me it looks like last years TH line was a product to milk their fan base customers.
And this really is not a fine behaviour of a company who wants to keep their fan base close.
There were just too many things happening in the last years and at least Gibson lost one fan!

I personally never believed that bull**** and hence why I didn't buy one. You're not the only one who was put off by it. We have had some very long threads dedicated to this. Probably something we don't need to rehash.