My Weakness

[Aligirl]

My weakness is bar chords and playing almost everything between the 10th and 22nd frets. My chords are awful. I usually either mute strings I am not supposed to or slam strings, making them sing out. My Dad plays, and very well, but he's not a teacher. He says he just does it. I do watch him when I visit, about once per week or two. He alternately says I'm putting too much pressure or too little. I watch youtube videos and I'll watch someone chord something yet when I try to replicate it what I get is something that sounds like a cat in a garbage disposer. It is not the equipment. I use one of Dad's amplifiers and he gave me my own Les Paul, a 2009 standard. It IS properly set up. I can tell by the way HE makes it sound! Surely there's a few simple rules to follow, right? I'm a student in college, I don't have time for lessons, I have been playing for 2 years and I seem to be stuck in a rut. I really want to improve, I just don't know how. Help!!! Ali

 

[SteveC]

You have to make time for lessons. And, you have to make time to learn how to play correctly. There are no shortcuts. If you're not progressing, there is a reason why. If you can't figure out that reason, you need help. Most of us do, at one time or another. Better to get off on the right foot now, rather than spend many more years "undoing" what you are doing wrong.

Try some of the folks on YouTube, if you can't fit in-person lessons within your schedule. Justin JustinGuitar.com is one of the better teachers out there. Most of his stuff is free. Start at the beginner section lessons and work your way up to where it starts getting challenging for you. Then stop & use that point as your "ground zero". Build from there.

Honestly, it's much better to get it correct up front, than finding out later that you have correct the mistakes that you have memorized.

I'm sure you will get some other great advice here, too. Welcome to the forum!

 

[Aligirl]

Thank you. I'm trying. There's just not enough hours in a day for lessons on top of studies. I don't even have a social life but I will try to play 1/2 hour or so in the mornings and evenings. It's just the further from the nut I go, the worse I get. A.

 

[So What]

Make sure you are getting your hand in the correct position for fretting.

I have a college aged daughter who plays occasionally, but she can't take a lesson from me.

You need to try to find an instructor.

.

 

[Aligirl]

Make sure you are getting your hand in the correct position for fretting.

I have a college aged daughter who plays occasionally, but she can't take a lesson from me.

You need to try to find an instructor.

.

Maybe we're related. Dad can't slow down to try to teach me. He says it's all muscle memory and he just "does it". Him trying to teach me frustrates us both. My wrist seems to twist and I don't know why. That can't be natural but if I don't, I can't reach. And I'm forever hitting the wrong number of strings. Ali

 

[So What]

Maybe we're related. Dad can't slow down to try to teach me. He says it's all muscle memory and he just "does it". Him trying to teach me frustrates us both. My wrist seems to twist and I don't know why. That can't be natural but if I don't, I can't reach. And I'm forever hitting the wrong number of strings. Ali

Yeah, I try to show her too many things at once.

She plays piano and sax. She can read music, and knows more about music theory than I do.

So, I tend to forget she's a beginner on guitar.

Anyway...

Get your hand all the way under the neck so that your thumb rests on the back of the neck in the center, and only your fingertips touch the strings.





This should help you get clean fretting.

The thumb will help you apply pressure for barre chords too.

This is why you need a teacher, to show you what I mean in person.

 

[SteveC]

Thank you. I'm trying. There's just not enough hours in a day for lessons on top of studies. I don't even have a social life but I will try to play 1/2 hour or so in the mornings and evenings. It's just the further from the nut I go, the worse I get. A.

OK - so, we know that you have an hour a day to learn & practice. That's great!!! Make the most of that hour.

Here's a suggestion for how to do that:

At first, spend some time and make a list of goals. These goals should be short term, at first. You have to get the foundation built solidly, before you can build on top of that. More on this later.

It sounds like you're struggling with the bar chords up & down the neck. So, let's start with hand position & finger placement - just like SoWhat showed you.

Practice setting your hand and fingers, making an E-shape bar chord at the 5th… an Amajor. Work on getting your grip pressure correct. There should be just enough pressure to hold the entire chord & have each note ring out cleanly. But, not so much that your hand fatigues if you hold the chord more than 20-40 seconds. Be meticulous in getting this down properly.

Then, do the same thing with the A-shape bar chord at the 5th… a Dmajor.

Once you are comfortable with each of them independently, start learning to change from one to another, until you can do it cleanly. Strum each chord 4X, then change to other one:

A A A A D D D D A A A A D D D D…..

Your goal is consistent pressure and accurate fingering.

Once you get that down, move the pattern up the neck as far as you can go and still make the changes comfortably and accurately. When you find the fret where you start to have difficulty, stop!

Because of the spacing between frets is getting smaller and the neck is getting a bit wider, you'll need to go back to the part where you figure out how to place your hand/fingers on the notes - for that location. Don't do anything else, until you can comfortably fret the E-shape & A-shape chords, where all the notes ring out and your grip pressure is correct.

I know…. it sounds like "one step forward, two steps back" but, you have to get these fundamentals down properly.

Here is where a lesson or 2 or 3 or 4 would be very beneficial. See if you can find someone to work with with you for 30 minutes a week. That's only one half-hour session, out of the entire week.

And, instead of watching TV or (some other activity), take 30 minutes and watch a few of Justin's (or someone else that you might find that you like) lessons.

So, if you truly can and will faithfully, devote two 30 minute sessions a day, every day - you will have a full 6 hours each week to practice. With a combination of on-line + teacher + practice… you will begin to make very good progress in short order.

Back to your goals..

1. Be able to play bar chords all the way up the neck, at least to the 13-15th fret. Learn grip pressure and fingering so that the chords are fingered properly and I am not gipping too lightly or to firm. The notes should all ring out and I shouldn't be squeezing too hard. My fingers aren't muting adjacent strings, muting those notes.

2. Be able to change from one bar chord to another, in a progression (A-E-C-G-D, etc.), by stemming 4 beats on each chord and changing CLEANLY to the next one. My grip pressure will be comfortable and consistent.

3. …your turn…

Don't overreach, make the goals reasonable, measurable and achievable. But, thy should be a bit of stretch.

Come up with 2 more goals and work on those 5 until you can honestly say that you have achieved them.

Then, make 5 new goals. Work on them. Also go back and practice the first 5 goals. Keep building.

That's a start; hope it helps!

 

[JonR]

Maybe we're related. Dad can't slow down to try to teach me. He says it's all muscle memory and he just "does it". Him trying to teach me frustrates us both. My wrist seems to twist and I don't know why. That can't be natural but if I don't, I can't reach. And I'm forever hitting the wrong number of strings. Ali

Slow down and look at each individual element: guitar position, arm and wrist angles, finger positions.

1. Keep thumb on back of neck, pointing up (as above).

2. Place your index finger parallel to the frets, around the middle of the neck, say 7th fret. You're pinching the neck (gently) between thumb pad and straight index (don't worry too much about getting all the strings right down yet). Do try to keep that index dead straight: it bends from the knuckle, not (or very little) from the first joint.

3. Now get the neck in a position where that finger is pointing straight at your eye, or maybe your forehead. Look down on the top edge of the neck, not the fretboard. (Remember to keep that index parallel to the frets.)

4. In this position, the wrist should feel relaxed and fairly straight. Your elbow should be at 90 degrees or less. Your index fingertip will probably be around 9-10 inches from your face (don't let it be much further away than that). The neck angle may be a little higher than you're used to. (Guitar body position -and neck angle - doesn't matter too much, as long as the neck/left wrist angle is good.)

5. Generally, when pressing strings down, keep the finger as close up behind the fret as you can. It's not possible with every finger in some chord shapes, but get as close to the fret as you can with as many fingers as possible. The further back from the fret, the more pressure you need, and the more risk of thumps and buzzes instead of clean notes. (Of course, don't press right on top of the fret either...)

6. Don't tuck the elbow into your body. Keep the forearm roughly at right angles to the neck, because that means the best angle for the fingers on the strings.

7. Barre chords always require some experimentation with how far the index needs to go across the neck, and whether you need to lay it slightly on its side (don't go too far that way, though, or the fingers lean over too much).
With the E-shape, use the bony underside of the first joint to get the B-E strings down; then drop the tip of the finger to get the 6th string. The middle 3 don't need pressing all the way down - because your other fingers are on those!

8. At extreme neck positions, barre chords are naturally going to be more difficult. Big stretches below 5th fret, fingers squashed together above 10th fret. That's the nature of the beast.

9. Remember you rarely need all 6 strings on any chord. Think about which strings are the important ones (which will vary from song to song, chord to chord), and make sure they're audible.
For the A-shape barre, consider the double barre in higher positions (ring finger across the 3 middle strings). With this shape you only need the middle 4 strings, doesn't matter if the outer strings are muted.
For the E-shape barre, consider the thumb-fretting-6th option, even if it means muting the 1st string (you can usually do without that). Then you have one finger on each of the middle 4 strings, no need for a barre. Works fine (but make sure you do mute the 1st string if you go with this one).

10. Can't think of a step 10...
Oh yes, don't ask your dad for lessons! Him saying "I just do it" is a sure sign he's a useless teacher . (He's forgotten how he learned....) You can do it yourself (I did, and many others do) if you're systematic about it, and try and trace any little thing that's going wrong. Don't get frustrated, stay cool, and focus.

 

[RockyMtnGuitars]

A quick idea, back to the JustinGuitar thing. I appreciate not having the structured time - I really do. One thing I like about Justin's site is that everything is in small chunks, which I can usually find time for. 10 minute lesson then 10 minutes to try it on my own, then a day or two later, perhaps, I repeat. It's the best I can do, sometimes.

Here's a link to the Intermediate lessons. If you browse the list, you'll several barre-chord specific lessons. I hope those help. IM-000 ? Intermediate Method Index | free guitar lesson from justinguitar.com

BTW I also like the idea of goals then breaking them down.

Keep at it!

 

[Aligirl]

Thank you EVERYONE! Bullet points are so much easier to digest than paragraphs lol. I do tend to keep my thumb up high to cradle the entire neck and to mute the E. I recognize that it's a problem, maybe THE problem, and I'm working on that. It's forcing me to roll my index finger, hence the twisted wrist. Again, thank you, friends Ali

 

[SteveC]

Good luck… and check back in down the road & let us know how you're making out!

 

[tzd]

There are some ways to 'cheat' you know:

When playing a F-major shape chord, use your index finger tip to press the two high strings below, and the thumb to press the low E string on top.

When playing a B-major shape chord, use your ring finger to bar all three notes on strings 2,3,4 instead of trying to squeeze three finger tips in there to press the 'A' shape.

If you're playing with distortion, usually I-V or I-V-+I power chords are all you need on the two/three lower strings. You can play that with just the finger tips of your index and ring finger, or even index and pinky finger. I use both combinations - depending on how far up or down the neck I am, one of them is easier than the other.

And finally, if you really want to practice a full F-major shape bar chord, practice playing the E major chord using your middle, ring and little finger. Once you get that down, move up the neck, and when you bar with your index finger, just concentrate on the bottom part of the finger pressing down the first and second strings, and the finger tip pressing down on the 6th string. This allows you to relax and slightly curve your index finger while at the same time executing a perfect bar. You don't have to press down too hard on the index finger all the time.

 

[JonR]

Thank you EVERYONE! Bullet points are so much easier to digest than paragraphs lol. I do tend to keep my thumb up high to cradle the entire neck and to mute the E. I recognize that it's a problem, maybe THE problem

Right!
If your thumb is up over, muting the 6th, there's no way you can get your index straight enough. You need to bring your hand down and forward - there should be an inch or so of space between the bottom edge of the neck and your palm; and the index goes straight up across that fret.

Still, if you like that thumb-wrapped position, you can always go for fretting the 6th with your thumb - and then 1 finger per string on the middle 4, and mute the 1st. Works well a lot of the time for the E-shape barre - eg, for this B chord:

-x- (mute with side of index)
-7- index
-8- middle
-9- pinky
-9- ring
-7- thumb

I even sometimes use a similar "lazy" fingering for the A-form shape; here's an E major chord in that position:

-x- mute with pinky
-9- pinky
-9- pinky (or ring)
-9- ring
-7- index
-x- mute (or fret) with thumb

Either ring or pinky can squash 2 strings down, and pinky will lift slightly to mute the 1st. I can alternate easily between these two shapes.
(Hey, works for me anyhow... )

Not saying these are BETTER than barres, and definitely not ways of avoiding having to play barres! (you've got to get those right sooner or later) Just stuff that's worth trying, and maybe using until you get the full barres working.

 

[MUSTANGCAT]

Bend your wrist. Make sure the action on your guitar is fine for you. Have your dad or someone who understands what good action is set the guitar up for you. If you are learning maybe get a nylon string. There is no shame in it, that's how I learned. It sounds like you are in the learning stage. You are probably still learning the basics. Just keep practicing and, be patient with yourself. Good luck!

 

[RockyMtnGuitars]

I don't want to distract from the original post but I just want to say thanks for all this advice, too... I'm also struggling to learn barre chords and there've been some really helpful tips. Thanks all!

 

[SteveGangi]

Thank you. I'm trying. There's just not enough hours in a day for lessons on top of studies. I don't even have a social life but I will try to play 1/2 hour or so in the mornings and evenings. It's just the further from the nut I go, the worse I get. A.

Check something... Is the string hieght increasing as you go up the neck? On some guitars that is the problem. The more space there is, the harder you have to press.

Also, when you barre, do you wrap your hand completely around the neck (wrong), or do you press your thumb against the back of the neck (correct)? Barre chords are far easier if you use proper technique (thumb against the back of the neck).

It's all about good technique, not brute power.

 

[st.bede]

Just want to reiterate: slow is best. (I still remember how excited I was when I was able to play my F chord right... that must of been over 30 years ago).

 

[twiggidy]

Not to throw off anyone's learning, but I find it interesting that everyone says to keep the thumb behind the neck for barre chords. Full disclosure, I did the same thing for the longest time and just recently decided to take lessons to get more formal training. The first thing he taught me with the moveable barre chords is the get my thumb up on the sixth string (which helps mute the 5th string). He's teach me more of a blues style so maybe that's the reason.

Anyway, I'm sure there's going to be 1000 replies telling me he's teaching me wrong. But to each his own....


To stay on topic, I do echo one of the earlier replies in that you should try to make time for a formal lesson, even if it's only a half hour. I thought I was too busy for lessons too until i realized on Saturday mornings when I'm playing in front of a TV, I could be playing in front of a teach for an hour. When you think of all the things you do everyday I'm sure you can find a 1/2 hour or hour for a lesson. It's helped me tremendously as far as "learning" the actual guitar and not just learning to play songs.

Just me 2c

 

[twiggidy]

slow is best

Cant be stressed enough. Whether it's scales, licks, or chords.

 

[chrisuk]

Loads of good advice here - but ultimately 2 years unless you are very gifted is nothing.