My first "band encounter", I'm shocked, help.

[Kris Ford]

Finding good tone and balanced levels in a rehearsal room (just in a band in general) is tough. A lot of good advice in this thread. I'll add my experience/thoughts to what has already been mentioned.

1. Less gain is more. Want a bigger, fuller sound? Add mids and reduce your drive. I have always found that my treble naturally increases as my volume increases. I have also found that if I reduce my gain just to the point of a note beginning to sustain, I have enough. Volume (and better technique) will take care of the rest.

2. Bedroom tone and Band tone aren't equal. As mentioned above if you adjust at home at low volume, things will be too bright when cranked. As the years have progressed my method for dialing in my live tone is as follows:

• Go to the rehearsal room (or rent a space for an hour or two) it REALLY helps if, at least, the drummer can be there if not everyone.
• Turn the amp up (I used 60-120 watt tube amps, and I would run the master about half way up)
• Set your EQ flat (check what this may be for your amp - I would just run everything at 5)
• As you play adjust your gain to give you just enough drive to "crunch" or where single notes just start to sustain.
• If you sound muddy REDUCE your bass.
• If you need "cut" INCREASE your mids.
• If you sound harsh REDUCE your treble.
• Don't "look" at the controls and think it's "wrong" - let your ears decide.
• Once you have a tone that seems to "fit" adjust your gain and volume again to where you are heard but not overpowering.
• You may need to "fine tune" your EQ - add back a little treble to give that "extra" sheen of clarity...
• Remember, a BASS handles the low-end....the DRUMS will eat the MOST frequencies - including the HIGHS.
• Remember, an electric guitar is a MIDRANGE instrument.
• If you have pedals, you will need to rework a lot of those settings to "fit" also.
• TAKE A PICTURE WITH A DATE STAMP. (if you go back home with your amp chances are you WILL mess up your band tone to make it sound good at home. having the picture will enable you to get your sound "back" - I say that lightly because every time you mess with it you will have a hard time getting it back)

For example, the tone settings I would use on my Rivera amps were:

• Gain - 6-7
• Bass - 2-3
• Mid - 6-8
• Treble - 3-4
• Master - 5-7
• Presence - 2-4

It sounded TERRIBLE alone, but in the band it sounded HUGE and CLEAR. For reference, I play hard rock/classic metal.

Other factors to consider, most of which are outside of your control....

• If the bass player is using a "hi-fi" tone (lots of highs and lows) you will have a harder time dialing in your sound. He will be eating a lot of your frequency range and the two of you will blend into one sound, causing your band to sound "weak" because of the perceived lack of low-end. I have experienced it MANY times over the years, and I have found MOST bass players unwilling to work with their tone. I have always sacrificed MY sound for the betterment of the band. If the BAND sounds good people will respond better than if the band sounds crappy as whole but the guitarist sounds killer.
• Drummer dynamics DO matter, but not as much as fresh heads and proper tuning. When a drummer keeps fresh heads on their kit, the drums respond better and have "tone". This also allows the drummer a better chance to control their dynamics and volume because their instrument is "alive". Proper tuning enables a drummer to use less dampening, which again allows for better dynamic control because they won't have to BASH and POUND to get the drum to resonate. (I have been a drummer for almost 20 years now, and these words are the TRUTH no matter how a drummer wants to explain it away )

Everyone in a band has to work together to make the band sound good. You can be LOUD and still sound great. It comes from sculpting a sound together where each instrumentalist understands their job in the band.....

• Guitar - melodic support via leads, rhythmic/melodic support to accompany vocals
• Bass - foundation support via creating a groove that propels the rhythmic pulse of the songs (helps people FIND the pulse)
• Drums - time keeper and rhythmic drive
• Vocals - what people (non musicians) really care about. If the vocalist can't be heard people won't dig the band - this transcends genre, unless you want to be a band for musicians only.....

Good luck, man. It takes a lot of work and a different skill set to be in a band!!

EXCELLENT post, and great advice!!

I gigged for 17 some years, and you nailed it right on the head.

 

[Sournote]

The comments to find others to play with are well and good but often easier said than done. Even if that is your plan playing with the group you got until you meet some better guys is a good idea. It does take some doing to learn to fit yourself into a group.

As for the loud. By something like these and use them. Save yourself from permanent tinnitus.

https://www.sweetwater.com/c1174--Earplugs

 

[hbucker]

Set your amp across from you. You'll hear it much better than when you stand right in front of it. If everyone in the band does this, they will all want to turn down by default. You wouldn't do this at a gig, but at a jam or rehearsal, it's a no-brainer.

As others have said, adjust your eq for the higher volume. It's real. Hi volume requires a different eq.

If your 20 watt amp is struggling, turn your low eq down as you turn up your volume. Low frequencies require the most power. You'll lose thump, but you won't lose anything that your bass player can't cover.

Over time you'll learn what you need to hear and what you don't. For me, drums and bass are a must, but usually not a problem. Obviously, I must hear myself... Hearing the lead singer enough to know where he is in the song is important, but I don't need to hear them nearly as much.

Keep doing it. You'll figure it out.

Good luck

 

[rogue3]

Don't worry mate.

Playing at high volume is in itself a whole nuther skill.

And like all skills it's one that needs to be practice practice practiced.

Once you get the hang of it it's the most fun you can have while vertical.

Unfortunately, it's not easy on the ears sometimes, but what are ya gonna do?

It helps to try to coordinate with the other people in terms amp settings and volume so you're not all over each other...each member needs their sonic space.

You can't all just plug in and bash away or it'll sound like shit.

Keep at it as often as possible and things will improve.

Well said! You've clearly been there.Couldn't agree more.It is the most joyous thing to play at live band volumes.The electric guitar is a different animal all together.

 

[irocdave12]

The dude who plays guitar in Linkin Park wears headphones every time I've seen him. I've always wondered what his reasons were and if it's just his guitar coming through his cans or everything at reduced volume?

 

[Stevie 202]

Well said! You've clearly been there.Couldn't agree more.It is the most joyous thing to play at live band volumes.The electric guitar is a different animal all together.

At first it's a little like riding a tiger...bugger always tries to get away from you and when it does...ouch!

 

[Rhust]

this thread is full of USEFUL advice... some of it I knew, and some I even took for granted everyone knew because I learned by jamming with friends (pre internet days) but there is a lot of useful info here..

I'll add that bassists get a bad rep, but as a guitarist, they are your best friend. at home you try to play/sound in such a way that you don't need a bassist... slightly scooped mids, heavy bass... but in a band, you two will occupy overlapping sonic space if you are set that way... reduce your bass, boost your mids and reap the benefits of working together!

at home, I try to practice with drum/bass backing tracks. it's important to play on time, and live in your sonic realm.

 

[Marshall & Moonshine]

Nothing goes right the first time. It's all a learning experience.
Take what you now know and adjust your situation accordingly.
Or....
Get a good treble booster and watch those bitches run for their lives.

 

[Milchy]

Nothing goes right the first time. It's all a learning experience.
Take what you now know and adjust your situation accordingly.
Or....
Get a good treble booster and watch those bitches run for their lives.

This made me giggle hard, thanks

 

[mdubya]

The amp that you posted would need to be up off the ground and pointed right at your head to be heard with a drummer.

We used to practice a lot with our backline set up like it would be in a club. The drummer preferred we set up with the amps facing him. It changes the dynamics, but it can be helpful, too.

Ultimately, a 50 watt Marshall with some speakers at chest level, and you won't have a problem hearing yourself or being heard.

We used tables, chairs, old speaker cabs, whatever was around, to get speakers up where we could hear them.

I prefer a drummer with an electronic kit these days so I can play my low wattage amps. No headaches, no ringing ears.

 

[LPV]

Reminds me of the importance of of individual musicians hearing each other. The bass and the drums have got to be super tight. An expression I heard years ago talking to a guy in another band about how important that was. Dude said "if the drummer farts, bass player's gotta be there to suck the wind out of his a$$"

 

[Marshall & Moonshine]

Reminds me of the importance of of individual musicians hearing each other. The bass and the drums have got to be super tight. An expression I heard years ago talking to a guy in another band about how important that was. Dude said "if the drummer farts, bass player's gotta be there to suck the wind out of his a$$"

Just when I thought I had all the reasons to not play bass.

 

[Leña_Costoso]

I never had a problem with my Deluxe Reverb playing against guy using jcm 900 2 x 12 s. They were on 4 and I was on 7.

 

[rogue3]

At first it's a little like riding a tiger...bugger always tries to get away from you and when it does...ouch!

Like trying to master a writhing whipping serpent...make it heal,choke it,get it under control,then stroke it for the sonic fruit within...poetry got me at morning coffee..lol!

 

[Classicplayer]

Like trying to master a writhing whipping serpent...make it heal,choke it,get it under control,then stroke it for the sonic fruit within...poetry got me at morning coffee..lol!

Which brand? How many cups? Send me a sample!


Classicplayer

 

[Rhust]

I never had a problem with my Deluxe Reverb playing against guy using jcm 900 2 x 12 s. They were on 4 and I was on 7.

in college was the same way... I was in a little band (crap if I'm being honest) the main guy had a JCM900 and I had a 35w 1964 Fender tremolux... he would run on about 6-7, and I was on 8-9 (still clean, mind you, running pedals for dirt) and we were about the same level... loud. matching 4x12 older marshall cabs.

 

[rogue3]

Which brand? How many cups? Send me a sample!


Classicplayer

One fond memory from rehersals with a hard core band in our rehersal space.We went on to do several successful gigs and produced a demo cassette.It was in a place called the Rehersal Factory in downtown toronto.It doesn't exist anymore.Our space was maybe no more than 10 by 18 feet.High ceiling.Economical.3-piece band in a closet.We were loud.I should say the bass player and the drummer(mad irish..shane) were loud.To match them,i was using a cranked 50 watt 2-12 JCM 800 channel switching combo, with those tilt-back legs.What a fine amp. Yes,i was wearing audiologists earplugs,with a 30 decibel reduction.
I learned to tame the Les Paul serpent there.Lovely.

After that sardine can,controlling a cranked LesPaul onstage,with pant legs flapping,became a piece of cake.Its a totally different skillset.

 

[Classicplayer]

in college was the same way... I was in a little band (crap if I'm being honest) the main guy had a JCM900 and I had a 35w 1964 Fender tremolux... he would run on about 6-7, and I was on 8-9 (still clean, mind you, running pedals for dirt) and we were about the same level... loud. matching 4x12 older marshall cabs.

Consider yourself fortunate back then to have such a great amp! Back in the '60s, I had a 12 watt Gibby Skylark and was the only instrument accompanying a four-voice singing group. The few venues we played at, I was woefully underpowered and not really an asset IMO. Practice sessions were fine, but what did a naive kid know about amplification back then?


Classicplayer

 

[Marshall & Moonshine]

I never had a problem with my Deluxe Reverb playing against guy using jcm 900 2 x 12 s. They were on 4 and I was on 7.

What??
The 900 has a few volume controls.
Which one was on 4, and a DR was keeping up?
If I have my preamp on my 800 at 6, and my Master Volume anywhere over 3, no DR is keeping up, if I don't want it to. If it's a volume war you want, you just brought a squirt gun to a bazooka fight.
Now, if you two play well together, and don't walk all over each other's parts, it can certainly work.
But I wouldn't go telling the world that a DR keeps up with a 50w Marshall and a pair of 12's, because it's simply no match. You may think so, if your amp is right next to you and his is across the stage, but without a PA, no way.

 

[mmd]

I wouldn't go telling the world that a DR keeps up with a 50w Marshall and a pair of 12's, because it's simply no match.

TRUTH!!! Especially without PA support. I dig the DR, and in a one guitar band - yeah, it can work well. But in a 2 guitar band with a 900, 800, or most 50 watt tube amps....nope.