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Dun Ringill

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I get MLK! I used to get Columbus day! I've got a 4 day weekend coming up!
 

Tone deaf

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I was expecting this:




I only support this (removing historical names) if done in tandem with burning all the history books.
 

LtDave32

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Maybe they should change their own fucking name.

National Association for the Advancement of Colored People
That's the game, see?

You call them by what's preferred on Tuesday, and by next Saturday, "you're doing it wrong. How dare you".

Are good if you call them "black", most of them anyway.

Then you're wrong for that. You should be calling them "African American" -No matter their actual origin.

Then you're wrong, waaay wrong if you call them "colored folk", even with the kindness of intentions.

But if you call them "people of color", then you're okay... somehow.

It's just a game. Nobody should ever be "offended" if what you mean from your heart is meant with good intentions.

Those who are totally "offended" are just playing a stupid game, IMO. Simon Says. It's just to keep you off balance and always placing your foot in the wrong place. -That's the game.
 

Freddy G

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That's the game, see?

You call them by what's preferred on Tuesday, and by next Saturday, "you're doing it wrong. How dare you".

Are good if you call them "black", most of them anyway.

Then you're wrong for that. You should be calling them "African American" -No matter their actual origin.

Then you're wrong, waaay wrong if you call them "colored folk", even with the kindness of intentions.

But if you call them "people of color", then you're okay... somehow.

It's just a game. Nobody should ever be "offended" if what you mean from your heart is meant with good intentions.

Those who are totally "offended" are just playing a stupid game, IMO. Simon Says. It's just to keep you off balance and always placing your foot in the wrong place. -That's the game.
I'd like to expand on that. I believe it's a lot more sinister that that. If you can control speech, you can eventually control thought. And THAT'S the end goal.
 

pnuggett

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COLORED PEOPLE ARE ADVANCING!!! And all you can talk about is changing names. HOW DARE YOU!!!
 

cybermgk

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I have a conflicted opinion on this issue. I live in central Washington. A place where Confederate General Robert E Lee never stepped foot in his entire life. A place with absolutely no connection whatsoever to the man other than he was an American and people know his name.

There is a grade school down the street from me that used to be "Robert E Lee Elementary School". Someone bitched, they had some meetings, and now they changed the name. To be economical and not have to change the entire sign out front, they just removed the "Robert E", and now it is just called "Lee Elementary".

Are they erasing history? I don't know. The school probably shouldn't have been named after the guy in the first place in my opinion. For fuck sakes, the south lost the damn war. How much do we need to celebrate the losers of a war from 150+ years ago? And as I said before, it had nothing to do with Washington State. Teach the civil war in class, sure, I'm all for learning history. But do we need to keep naming things after these people and putting up statues of their likeness? I'm no snowflake bitching about being triggered, but it all really seems unnecessary.
You kind of prove the point on why all this erasure by protest is bad.

History, and those that made marks in it were not binary, black, white, good, evil, etc. They and it was nuanced, complex and complicated.

Lee wasn't just the Confederate States Army leader. He was also a distinguished US army officer in the Mexican American war. He ran West Point as Commandant. Even his views on Slavery were complicated. He was against Slavery (even had his will emancipate his), assisted a few by his own hand, to freedom in Liberia, WHILE believing in White race superiority. He believed slavery should end, but over time as individual owners came to 'religious light'. He believed all that, but when he took over his father in laws estate, when he died, he didn't act on the FIL's will that emancipated his slaves.

Complicated. Not just pure evil, let alone as judged for his times and location.

THis whole 'tear down the status, rename this and that, treats these people and their history as anything but complicated, nuanced etc. It also teaches way too many that people are either evil, if they stood for anything you don't, ever, or not (if they follow your beliefs exactly).

And, oh btw, Lee married the daughter of the adopted son of George Washington, and thus the tie to Washington State.
 
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Freddy G

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You kind of prove the point on why all this erasure by protest is bad.

History, and those that made marks in it were not binary, black, white, good, evil, etc. They and it was nuanced, complex and complicated.

Lee wasn't just the Confederate States Army leader. He was also a distinguished US army officer in the Spanish American war. He ran West Point as Commandant. Even his views on Slavery were complicated. He was against Slavery (even had his will emancipate his), assisted a few by his own hand, to freedom in Liberia, WHILE believing in White race superiority. He believed slavery should end, but over time as individual owners came to 'religious light'. He believed all that, but when he took over his father in laws estate, when he died, he didn't act on the FIL's will that emancipated his slaves.

Complicated. Not just pure evil, let alone as judged for his times and location.

THis whole 'tear down the status, rename this and that, treats these people and their history as anything but complicated, nuanced etc. It also teaches way too many that people are either evil, if they stood for anything you don't, ever, or not (if they follow your beliefs exactly).

And, oh btw, Lee married the daughter of the adopted son of George Washington, and thus the tie to Washington State.
Yes...and on top of that, it's insane to judge someone's beliefs from back in history by today's standards.
 

SteveC

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I hate to be the one to tell them, but they can't erase those people from history no matter what they do,

Should schools be named after Confederate general staff officers? Maybe not. But that's not the argument being made is it? How does naming a school "Jeff Davis PS #21" violate someone's civil rights?

I get the "let's not venerate these guys" point of view. But you can't change history. You can only fuck up the future.
This is so fucking spot on, it's scary.
 

JTM45

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I hate to be the one to tell them, but they can't erase those people from history no matter what they do,

Should schools be named after Confederate general staff officers? Maybe not. But that's not the argument being made is it? How does naming a school "Jeff Davis PS #21" violate someone's civil rights?

I get the "let's not venerate these guys" point of view. But you can't change history. You can only fuck up the future.
what’s tragic is it’s happening right before our very eyes and we can’t stop it.

I’ve always tried to live a life of respect and equality but I’m getting tired of feeling like the bowl and not the seat.
 

cjpeck

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You kind of prove the point on why all this erasure by protest is bad.

History, and those that made marks in it were not binary, black, white, good, evil, etc. They and it was nuanced, complex and complicated.

Lee wasn't just the Confederate States Army leader. He was also a distinguished US army officer in the Spanish American war. He ran West Point as Commandant. Even his views on Slavery were complicated. He was against Slavery (even had his will emancipate his), assisted a few by his own hand, to freedom in Liberia, WHILE believing in White race superiority. He believed slavery should end, but over time as individual owners came to 'religious light'. He believed all that, but when he took over his father in laws estate, when he died, he didn't act on the FIL's will that emancipated his slaves.

Complicated. Not just pure evil, let alone as judged for his times and location.

THis whole 'tear down the status, rename this and that, treats these people and their history as anything but complicated, nuanced etc. It also teaches way too many that people are either evil, if they stood for anything you don't, ever, or not (if they follow your beliefs exactly).

And, oh btw, Lee married the daughter of the adopted son of George Washington, and thus the tie to Washington State.
The Spanish-American war occurred nearly 30 years after Lee's death.

While Lee was an accomplished man professionally, there's the old adage "suck one dick..."
How many slaves does one need to have owned before you can call a spade a spade? I don't think you can say that Lee emancipated anyone if he did it after he died. "y'all can be free once I can't make any more money off your ass". That's sum bullshit right there.

Complicated in some ways, dirt simple in others.
 

PeteK

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You kind of prove the point on why all this erasure by protest is bad.

History, and those that made marks in it were not binary, black, white, good, evil, etc. They and it was nuanced, complex and complicated.

Lee wasn't just the Confederate States Army leader. He was also a distinguished US army officer in the Spanish American war. He ran West Point as Commandant. Even his views on Slavery were complicated. He was against Slavery (even had his will emancipate his), assisted a few by his own hand, to freedom in Liberia, WHILE believing in White race superiority. He believed slavery should end, but over time as individual owners came to 'religious light'. He believed all that, but when he took over his father in laws estate, when he died, he didn't act on the FIL's will that emancipated his slaves.

Complicated. Not just pure evil, let alone as judged for his times and location.

THis whole 'tear down the status, rename this and that, treats these people and their history as anything but complicated, nuanced etc. It also teaches way too many that people are either evil, if they stood for anything you don't, ever, or not (if they follow your beliefs exactly).

And, oh btw, Lee married the daughter of the adopted son of George Washington, and thus the tie to Washington State.
Like I said earlier though, teach that shit in the classroom. We don't need a damn statue out front or to name the school after the guy. Rommel may have been a complicated man too, and one that Germans shouldn't forget due to his important historical influence. But they probably don't send their kids to Rommel Elementary School.

Also Washington State doesn't have any real connection to George himself. It was originally going to be called Columbia, but there was already a British Columbia to the north so they changed it.
 

cybermgk

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The Spanish-American war occurred nearly 30 years after Lee's death.

While Lee was an accomplished man professionally, there's the old adage "suck one dick..."
How many slaves does one need to have owned before you can call a spade a spade? I don't think you can say that Lee emancipated anyone if he did it after he died. "y'all can be free once I can't make any more money off your ass". That's sum bullshit right there.

Complicated in some ways, dirt simple in others.
I mistyped, the Mexican American war
 

cybermgk

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Also Washington State doesn't have any real connection to George himself. It was originally going to be called Columbia, but there was already a British Columbia to the north so they changed it.
And they changed it to name it after George Washington., connection or not.
 




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