Martial Law

acstorfer

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Gov To Declare Martial Law In Chicago? Open To National Guard On The Streets (Video) | Politics

So, do you believe there is ever an excuse to unleash martial law?

Personally I think declaring martial law would be stating failure. I know I don't have kids and that may give me my perspective. Also, I've never lived in a place where I was actually worried about getting shot. Still though, martial law scares me a lot more than street violence. I've only been to Chicago once and that was about ten years ago. It was one of the funnest nights I've ever had.

Oh, I'm just throwing the link up for some perspective on the discussion. Personally I've never heard of, nor do I have any faith in this news source.
 

rockstar232007

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Funny. My wife and I went twice last year, to visit my BIL. And I felt safer walking the streets of Chicago at 2am, than I do walking the streets of Detroit during broad daylight.
 

geochem1st

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Gov To Declare Martial Law In Chicago? Open To National Guard On The Streets (Video) | Politics

So, do you believe there is ever an excuse to unleash martial law?

Personally I think declaring martial law would be stating failure. ....



Whats wrong with stating failure if that is the truth, that the system has failed? Control has been lost..... civility in areas no longer exists, the rule of law is effectively over..... recognizing this is the first step in coming up with a real fix.

Maybe then all stakeholders can sit and now discuss, 'why the system' failed and how to fix it the best way possible.... how to move on. But first you have to take the city back and it's not happening through conventional methods.
 

geochem1st

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Funny. My wife and I went twice last year, to visit my BIL. And I felt safer walking the streets of Chicago at 2am, than I do walking the streets of Detroit during broad daylight.

Both cities are broken, neither is safe.
 

acstorfer

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Whats wrong with stating failure if that is the truth, that the system has failed? Control has been lost..... civility in areas no longer exists, the rule of law is effectively over..... recognizing this is the first step in coming up with a real fix.

Maybe then all stakeholders can sit and now discuss, 'why the system' failed and how to fix it the best way possible.... how to move on. But first you have to take the city back and it's not happening through conventional methods.

That's fine if martial law would actually be beneficial. Two problems the way I see it though. Military and police have two very specific differences on how issues must be resolved. Police function to "protect and serve", while military is geared towards a much more offensive type structure. While in the Air Force I was in the 100th Security Police Squadron. The Security Police were divided by law enforcement and security specialist. Again, there was separate training for two pretty specific different objectives. This has changed and it all merged into Security Forces, but that was more of a way to make things more "efficient". The same model is used in the Coast Guard and Navy. Coast Guard is a last line defense. Navy is go where we might and kick ass (when needed).

The second problem is it will look like we live in an occupied nation. Maybe that's symbolic but I always go back to, the first nation the nazis occupied was Germany.

Maybe by going to college less than half an hour away from Kent State gives me a more negative position on this as well.
 

realjimjim

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Out source it.

Some other country can police it cheaper than we can.

Russia, China, ???
 

geochem1st

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I understand the Kent State thing, and I don't see a parallel.

Big sections of Detroit and Chicago are like the wild west, or maybe think New Orleans during Katrina.... although random looting hasn't started, the killing sure has.

How else do you propose to take back the city outside of fencing it off and calling it a loss? [which is no solution, but sweeping debris under the carpet]

Send in Blackwater or whatever name they go by now...
 

acstorfer

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I understand the Kent State thing, and I don't see a parallel.

Big sections of Detroit and Chicago are like the wild west, or maybe think New Orleans during Katrina.... although random looting hasn't started, the killing sure has.

How else do you propose to take back the city outside of fencing it off and calling it a loss? [which is no solution, but sweeping debris under the carpet]

Send in Blackwater or whatever name they go by now...

The Kent State is an example of how the military is not trained for police type functions. The military has a policy of being used offensively, not to be at a college trying to calm down a protest. If past experience teaches us anything, getting the military to have similar type functions, similar type outcomes could be expected. Military is trained to notice uniforms. What if the criminals don't wear colors? Will it be cool for them to check everyone for explosives, guns, drugs, etc.?

As someone who holds degrees in security administration, criminal justice and political science and one of my minors being homeland security I can state only one thing with complete and total confidence. I have absolutely no idea how I would handle it. If I had some actual data at my disposal and not just the ravings of bloggers I might have a better idea. As things are, with my very limited actual knowledge of the economic factors, crime trends and previously tried models, I'm just curious about how people here feel about martial law. How people would fix things is a whole different discussion with a lot more information needed.

If I had to suggest a policy I would start with the "broken windows theory". In areas that are run down there is a general trend of increased crime. Certainly I would put significant resources into structural maintenance, community centers, gardens/parks, after school programs, do the best I can with schools, more government customer service type polices that give citizens easier access to services, access to cheaper healthier foods (aren't many farmers getting subsidized anyway? I really don't know this one for sure). I would also look at the model used in the 90's in NYC. Between a big increase in federal spending in local police agencies and how NYC allocated those resources, big things were done. There was a significant difference between the NYC of the eighties and nineties. If some of those lessons could be used, or afforded I would start there. Again, putting in military to domestic situations was always a bad idea. I'm not an expert, but wasn't Rome pretty adamant about not letting their armies in?
 

bertzie

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Just burn it down.

Or get Robocop.

Either one is fine with me. Take Milwaukee while you're at it too.
 

Rocco Crocco

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images
 

Thumpalumpacus

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I'm not so sure martial law is a bad thing, if it's really necessary. I don't know that it is, given that the Chicago PD seems to have issues with efficient enforcement.

But if martial law is necessary, I don't doubt that our military could enforce it without much bloodshed. Of course I'd be nervous about granting any domestic enforcement powers to the military --Posse Comitatus is a goddamned good law -- but if the local authorities cannot impose order upon the situation, what other option is available?

I trust the discipline and training of the Army and NG.
 

Gin&Pentatonic

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You guys realize the National Guard will be armed, right?

With guns! I'm talkin' real guns here, ppl.

The kind that shoot bullets that can cause boo-boos.
 

geochem1st

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Just burn it down.

Or get Robocop.

Either one is fine with me. Take Milwaukee while you're at it too.


'They' let the cities burn down during the mid to late 60's race riots.... then 'they' let the inner cities crumble... literally, looking like Berlin in 1946.... coined the term 'urban blight' and they remained that way for decades.... we tried this already.

Having been born, and lived in the Bronx I remember that the only money put by the city into rennovation was the blocking out of broken windows with painted scenes of curtains and flower pots on abandoned buildings along the Cross Bronx Expressway, which cut through the center of the Bronx. This was done to 'fool' the tourists..... everyone knew it was painted plywood.

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Blocks and blocks of rubble, junkies, gangs, murder..... Fort Apache.


starting in the mid-'80s, NYC pumped in $500 million a year into affordable housing.....more than the next 50 largest U.S. cities combined.... a good deal of that money went into the South Bronx...... just as important city officials used the money effectively, they provided both funding and guidance for the nonprofits and Community Development Corporations- which were local tennent grass roots groups that formed to try and take back their neighborhoods in the face of absentee landlords.

these community groups have received most of the credit for the Bronx's revival..... major help came from two federal government programs, the infamous CRA and the Low-Income Housing Tax Credit, which brought banks and private companies into an area they had previously shunned and 'red lined'.
 

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