Marshall Studio Vintage High Treble -- Too High Treble?

grumphh

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I've sold thousands of tubes to hundreds of people
You could have stopped right there :)


As for my ideas - sometimes a person just doesn't like an amps tone. For whatever reason. In that case getting rid of it and getting another amp is the best solution.
From my own experience trying to make 2 different 6101 Marshalls sound good to my ears.

Hint: It ain't the tubes, it's the circuit... But you sell tubes, so we will probably not agree. That's ok.
 
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mrdannyboy

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You could have stopped right there :)


As for my ideas - sometimes a person just doesn't like an amps tone. For whatever reason. In that case getting rid of it and getting another amp is the best solution.
From my own experience trying to make 2 different 6101 Marshalls sound good to my ears.

Hint: It ain't the tubes, it's the circuit... But you sell tubes, so we will probably not agree. That's ok.
Im not trying to be rude or condescending..but I believe that you honestly have no Idea just how much the tube selection plays in shaping the tone of an amp. ect.. V1,V2,V3, and V4 or 5 different amps all have independant jobs to do as do each triode . So if a you do not know how to select the proper tube for each position and the most important positions you are not going to get results.

Selling your amp is not help, thats a cop-out. The right tubes and the right speaker IMO can make almost any tube amp sound amazing.

Anyhow Cheers man.
 

grumphh

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Im not trying to be rude or condescending..but I believe that you honestly have no Idea just how much the tube selection plays in shaping the tone of an amp. ect.. V1,V2,V3, and V4 or 5 different amps all have independant jobs to do as do each triode . So if a you do not know how to select the proper tube for each position and the most important positions you are not going to get results.

Selling your amp is not help, thats a cop-out. The right tubes and the right speaker IMO can make almost any tube amp sound amazing.

Anyhow Cheers man.
I am sorry, you apparently sell tubes, so you need to push your agenda, but this hyperbole about the kind of differences tubes make does not help anyone.

And once again, tone comes from the circuit, not the components - so if you (general you) get an amp the tone of which you don't like, a change of tubes will just give you a slight variation on the sound that you don't like...

A 4 hole Marshall will sound like a 4 hole Marshall, and a 2203 like a 2203 (and a Mesa DR like a Mesa DR) - that is sort of the point of building amps with different circuits, they do have individual amp sounds - pretty much regardless of tube choice.
 

sonar

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Reality is somewhere in the middle.

A good amp can be great with the right tubes. A great amp, special.

A crap amp is still going to be a crap amp regardless of tubes.

Moving on.
 

mrdannyboy

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I am sorry, you apparently sell tubes, so you need to push your agenda, but this hyperbole about the kind of differences tubes make does not help anyone.

And once again, tone comes from the circuit, not the components - so if you (general you) get an amp the tone of which you don't like, a change of tubes will just give you a slight variation on the sound that you don't like...

A 4 hole Marshall will sound like a 4 hole Marshall, and a 2203 like a 2203 (and a Mesa DR like a Mesa DR) - that is sort of the point of building amps with different circuits, they do have individual amp sounds - pretty much regardless of tube choice.
o
 
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grumphh

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Not pushing any agenda, you just don't get it. Obviously never will. The simple fact is that his treble problem can be helped with the right tube combination ad speaker swap. Try educating yourself rather than coming in and arguing with someone who is trying to offer some help someone fix a problem. You still have offered no advice, just petty arguing about something it appears you have no idea about.lol my God,
Yeah tubes won't make a fender a marshall, but the right tubes in the most important positions can make world of difference in every amp and a speaker swap as well.

PS - you still have not offered any advice here other than sell your amp,lol jeebus.
Yes, speakers can make significant differences - but those aren't what we are discussing :cheers: - tubes however will only make minor differences, and "tube rolling" is an internet phenomenon the effects of which are vastly exaggerated by the very same people that make a living from selling tubes.

And of course i can't give any other advice than to return or sell an amp one doesn't like the tone of.
Ime that is the sensible thing to do, especially in a world where the amount of amps on offer has never been greater than today, and you are pretty much guaranteed to find an amp you like the tone of right out of the box, completely regardless of the tubes inside.

Look, amp tone is subjective, and it can actually happen that a person does in fact just not like the trebly bite that Marshalls are known (and hyped) for, and in that case acquiring an entirely different amp, rather than trying to make the Marshall something it isn't, is the solution.
Prettty simple really.
 

Classicplayer

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It's the on-going tube argument/discussion again. I've changed tube brands in amps that I've owned over a period of time and while there may be some tone changes if measured on testing equipment, playing an amp at a lower volume will, for most of us, not make the changes audible to all. The circuit design of an amp determines the amp's characteristic tone and the design is configured to allow (sometimes) a variety of tubes to work, even if a tube was not considered for the original design.

I have had the opportunity to have some different brands of tubes run through two amps that I've owned or currently own and I was not able to determine any significant audible change in either amp's tone. What I was concerned about was if the replacement tube produced the same tone that I heard when I first played through it with the original compliment of tubes. After all, I selected the amps because of their “advertised” tone combined with amp features unrelated to tone. My other priority being the quality and longevity of the replacement tubes.


Classicplayer
 

grumphh

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It's the on-going tube argument/discussion again. I've changed tube brands in amps that I've owned over a period of time and while there may be some tone changes if measured on testing equipment, playing an amp at a lower volume will, for most of us, not make the changes audible to all. The circuit design of an amp determines the amp's characteristic tone and the design is configured to allow (sometimes) a variety of tubes to work, even if a tube was not considered for the original design.

I have had the opportunity to have some different brands of tubes run through two amps that I've owned or currently own and I was not able to determine any significant audible change in either amp's tone. What I was concerned about was if the replacement tube produced the same tone that I heard when I first played through it with the original compliment of tubes. After all, I selected the amps because of their “advertised” tone combined with amp features unrelated to tone. My other priority being the quality and longevity of the replacement tubes.


Classicplayer
While i fundamentally agree with what you write, i have experienced that swapping preamp tubes (ECC83/12AX7) at home in a "controlled listening environment" (read: No bleedin' drummer making a racket) does result in subtly different tones.

I did most of this experimenting on two* 30th anniversary Marshalls that i never really loved, hence my trying to make them more agreeable to my ears, but although careful listening gave some slightly different results - the changes never altered the tone of the amp fundamentally, or even just to an extent that i liked the tone of it more.
Perhaps "tube rolling" might make a slight difference when recording, but i wouldn't count on it.
I have also tried swapping tubes on other amps i have owned (and still own) of course, mostly for curiositys sake, and found the same to be true with them as well:

An amp that sounds good to you (general you) will sound good to you regardless of tubes, and the same goes for amps that don't sound good to you...

*Yes, i did actually rebuy one (after having gotten rid of the first one i owned) at a time when i felt that i needed a smallish amp at home - and while the tone of it is not abysmal, i also never really loved it - hence the tube swapping experiments...
 

bad565ss

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I'm going to have to state that I've used preamp tubes to "tune" amplifiers with varying results. My 1987 is very responsive to both V1 and V3. I can alter the available gain/harsh/smooth on tap and the phase inverter reacts in more subtle, musical ways.
If you think there's no difference between a modern Shuguang/Sov-tek ECC83 and a 60's GE or RCA you probably haven't done the swap. My JCM 800 is less sensitive.
It doesn't react as much and I just run EH that are cheap and readily available.
For the OP if he really finds the amp too treble based he probably won't cure it with tubes IMO. Probably not with a speaker swap either. I sure wouldn't start throwing speakers at it unless I could somehow manage to test them before buying. $$$$$
 

ErictheRed

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Back to real life, Trippy's amp is most likely working as designed, and I recommend jumpering the inputs and running the Normal Volume higher than the Bright, mixing and matching to taste. Come back and share the results, or start a new thread so that this wonderful tube discussion can continue ad infinitum...
 

TrippyStormtrooper

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Hey guys. I am not in any way dissatisfied with the amp. I’m just new to the four hole amp world and was curious if I had a problem or if that was normal for that particular channel to have so much treble.

From all of your advice and playing the amp, it’s become obvious to me that jumping the channels is really how you unlock the amp’s full range of tonality and the sounds I’ve been getting have been mind blowing.

I really feel like Marshall has knocked it out of the park with this series of amps.
 

scozz

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While I don’t own a Studio Vintage I do own a Jcm800 Studio Classic and it is also very trebley. Not as much as you’re describing though.

I have read other SV owners commenting on the very high treble tones so I highly doubt there’s anything wrong with your amp.

I also have read about some vintage Marshall’s that were very trebley,....it sounds to me that it’s just the nature of the beast.
 

mrdannyboy

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While i fundamentally agree with what you write, i have experienced that swapping preamp tubes (ECC83/12AX7) at home in a "controlled listening environment" (read: No bleedin' drummer making a racket) does result in subtly different tones.
l
 
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grumphh

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Limiting yourself to 12AX7's seems very short sighted. There are plenty of tubes that are interchangeable for 12AX7 's that would very much help the OP with his issues. For one a 5751 has slightly less gain than a 12AX7 and will tame harshness and lower the highs in an overly bright amp. The 6072/6072A again has a little less gain from the 5751 will have the same result. Those two would have been my suggestion to the OP, or anyone who is experiencing such issues. Plenty of other options, and yes speaker swap was another suggestion at the beginning as well as different tubes, but , you locked onto the tube "rolling" because you are ill informed on the benefits.
Both my original suggestions can and do make a significant difference and do not have to break the bank if you know what to look for or do your research. Of course the circuit determines its characteristics, but it can tweaked to eliminate or reduce those unwanted characteristics via the right tubes in the right stages .


By your statements, such as below I know realize that you are very uninformed on this issue and close minded... so I'm just going to leave it at that.
"tube rolling" is an internet phenomenon the effects of which are vastly exaggerated by the very same people that make a living from selling tubes.

The above is laughable. I was just trying to help.
Fair enough, you have to defend your business. :)
 

mrdannyboy

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Fair enough, you have to defend your business. :)
Someday you will be or act like an adult, be patient. "just sell your amp" lol, great help you are.. i guess just a troll ...you should check out the flat earther thread. This is not my business nor am I selling anything here. If I was it would be gone in a fleury of activity. Educate yourself, you may just learn something along the way, although your stubbornness indicates otherwise. :wave::io:
 

Sterling # Sound

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Just got the same amp and experiencing the same thing. On my 72 Super Lead I cut the bright cap as not only was it too bright, it didn’t work with some pedals like a treble booster or fuzz.

I’m thinking of either bridging it with the normal channel or changing the cap.
 

KelvinS1965

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Further to my earlier post where I felt that the honeymoon period was over for me and my SV20: I found afterwards that when jumpering it also depends on which input I plug my guitar in to, so it pays to experiment. Top left tends to suit my LP and bottom right suits my Tele/Strats. That is when jumpered from top right to bottom left. Worth a try anyway for the few seconds it takes.

I also find that I most change the tone by adjusting the two volume controls and leave the BMT and presence alone most of the time.
 




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