Marshall Studio Vintage High Treble -- Too High Treble?

TrippyStormtrooper

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Hey Guys,

I'm going to post a NAD soon with pics of my new Marshall Studio Vintage 20 Combo which I absolutely adore, but until then, I have a quick question to any SV20H or C owners.

I know that Marshall's are known for their pronounced treble, but I feel like the High Treble input on the SV20 is SERIOUSLY high treble. Like, blizzard of nails high. I don't think I've ever played an amplifier with as much treble as this one. Currently, I have to roll off the presence pretty severely and the treble almost down to nothing to get a normal sound out of it.

Any one else notice this? Is this normal, or is my amp defective and this is a sign of damage?

When I roll in any High Treble volume the noise of the amp increases significantly. Also, if the volume is up past 0 even when it's not engaged with a jumper and I'm on the normal channel it makes noise. Is this normal? Have you guys noticed this as well?

Thanks in advance.
 

JohnnyN

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Sorry but I don't have such amp, but if it is anything like the old school 4 hole Marshalls you need to turn it up to push the output tubes and the speaker.
Speaking of the speaker, it will need some time to break in, so it may still be rather bright in any case. I don't know but I can imagine the 10" V-type being rather bright in any amp.

Just my 2 cents. I hope someone with such amp will chime in :)
 

TrippyStormtrooper

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Sorry but I don't have such amp, but if it is anything like the old school 4 hole Marshalls you need to turn it up to push the output tubes and the speaker.
Speaking of the speaker, it will need some time to break in, so it may still be rather bright in any case. I don't know but I can imagine the 10" V-type being rather bright in any amp.

Just my 2 cents. I hope someone with such amp will chime in :)
I appreciate your 2¢! I was thinking it might be the speaker too.

I think I’ve kinda figured it out, I treally think Marshall intended for this amp to be used jumpered. Because the High Treble is so high treble and the Normal is borderline muddy. But jumped together it’s perfect.
 

KelvinS1965

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I find my SV20H is the same and I run the presence and treble very low (about 2-3 on the dial) because of it. However, I usually jumper it, though even so I don't turn the treble/presence up much.

I've had mine a while now, but I think the honeymoon phase is over: I took my Mini Jubilee head to the rehearsal studio a few weeks ago (having not played it since I got the SV20H) and realised how much more flexible the MJ is. I do like the (one) sound the SV20H gives me when I play my Epiphone Les Paul (with Bare Knuckle Mules) through it, but it doesn't seem to work with my other single coil guitars, except my P90 Gold Top. So for me it's a bit of a luxury to keep it now...
 

ErictheRed

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That's normal for Super Leads and many other old amps. Do you gig or play with a band? That high end comes in very handy then, but if you're playing at home you'll want to dial it back.
 

mdubya

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It might be possible to plug into the normal channel, unjumpered and still dial up the treble channel volume to add treble. That is the way it would work on a real one.

I have played through some NMV plexis and the good ones sound indescribably sweet. The bad ones (usually real 60's plexis with drifted component values that the owners wouldn't touch due to their monetary value) sounded like tin cans.
 

sonar

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It might be possible to plug into the normal channel, unjumpered and still dial up the treble channel volume to add treble. That is the way it would work on a real one.

I have played through some NMV plexis and the good ones sound indescribably sweet. The bad ones (usually real 60's plexis with drifted component values that the owners wouldn't touch due to their monetary value) sounded like tin cans.
If anything the old Plexi's lean a little soft on the high end. I'm part of the camp that like the early 70's Super Leads as they tend to be more aggressive, but still nowhere near blizzard of nails shrill.
 

ErictheRed

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That's not true.
Are you sure? Maybe I'm misinterpreting the original post, but there are plenty of articles out there about taming the extreme top end of some old Marshalls:



For what it's worth, on my old "Marshall" amps (really clones, like the Reeves Custom Lead), I always jumpered the channels and dealt wtih this by running the Normal Volume higher than the Bright Volume, or whatever Marshall calls them (Loudness 1 and Loudness 2). I do the same on my Hiwatt. I can't imagine running those types of amps any other way than jumpering the inputs and mixing them to taste.
 
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sonar

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Are you sure? Maybe I'm misinterpreting the original post, but there are plenty of articles out there about taming the extreme top end of some old Marshalls:



For what it's worth, on my old "Marshall" amps (really clones, like the Reeves Custom Lead), I always jumpered the channels and dealt wtih this by running the Normal Volume higher than the Bright Volume, or whatever Marshall calls them (Loudness 1 and Loudness 2). I do the same on my Hiwatt. I can't imagine running those types of amps any other way than jumpering the inputs and mixing them to taste.
Your first link is for a '78, 50 watt master volume. The second link is just generic mods that have been around for years and not necessarily pointed at harsh treble.

I'm talking non-master volume, model 1959 Super Lead, specifically the models made from 1965 to 1975. The post handwired models from mid '73 to '75 can be a little on the bright side, but nowhere near "blizzard of nails high."

Over the years I've played a fair share of old Marshalls and own a '72 Super Lead Half Stack.
 

ErictheRed

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Again as I said, this is by design and all of the old 4-hole Plexis, except perhaps the Super Bass, operate this way. Some people remove the bright cap or do some other mod to tame it, but in my opinion mods are not needed.

"Blizzard of nails" is an opinion, so it's hard to know what the OP's amp is doing without hearing it in person, but I suspect that the amp is working properly and the OP just isn't used to an amp that works this way.
 

bad565ss

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Current settings on my 1987:
P-10 B-6 M-9 T-4 V1-6 V2-4
Guitar into V1 high input
V1 low jumped to V2 high
Believe me when I tell you there is nothing screechy about this.
With a Tube Screamer out front it's glorious.
 

zombiwoof

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Just jumper the channels and mix the bright channel in to taste. That's the way most vintage Marshall users attack the problem.
Al
 

marsten

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I have yet try one of the new 20 watt plexis but my 73 50 watt head was very shrill at lower volumes on the bright channel.
I always jumpered the normal and bright channels and it worked like a charm.

Enjoy your new Marshall for many years to come in good health :)
 

mrdannyboy

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You could change tubes, mullards tend to be a little darker as compared to lets say amperex, don't know how much that would help, but it should, thats the first thing I do when I get an amp is get rid of any new production and roll different tubes until I find what suits my amp best, speaker swap is also another idea and EQ? These are my simpleton suggestions. Thats about as far as I take it. Thats said, talk to your amp tech or a builder here. Cheers good luck
 

grumphh

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You could change tubes, ...mullards....
Internet expertise at work again: "Change your tubes to the most stupidly expensive ones money can buy you!!!" :D

Nah, "tube rolling" is no solution if an amp has a tone you simply don't like, as different tubes will not alter the fundamental character of the amps tone. The circuit determines the tone, not the components.

"Tube rolling" is for "fine tuning" in pristine home listening environments only, but won't magically turn an excessively bright amp into a more balanced sounding one - unless the swapped tubes were defective.
As soon as the drummer starts hitting those cymbals, what you are going to hear is "a Marshall", but no one would be able to determine whether the preamp tubes are fiendishly expensive NOS or cheap modern production ones in a band mix. Dixit.
 

mrdannyboy

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Internet expertise at work again: "Change your tubes to the most stupidly expensive ones money can buy you!!!" :D

Nah, "tube rolling" is no solution if an amp has a tone you simply don't like, as different tubes will not alter the fundamental character of the amps tone. The circuit determines the tone, not the components.

"Tube rolling" is for "fine tuning" in pristine home listening environments only, but won't magically turn an excessively bright amp into a more balanced sounding one - unless the swapped tubes were defective.
As soon as the drummer starts hitting those cymbals, what you are going to hear is "a Marshall", but no one would be able to determine whether the preamp tubes are fiendishly expensive NOS or cheap modern production ones in a band mix. Dixit.
Not true at all, I've sold thousands of tubes to hundreds of people and if you have a clue what to look for you can get some sweet deals. You are wrong about pretty much everything you have said, I have helped everyone from the home only players to several amp builders find the right tubes to get their amps exactly where they want them. Your "internet expertise " is ignorant , It is real world expertise and I've helped or sold tubes to between 50 and 100 members here as well.

If you educate yourself on tube eia codes you can get amazing deals on tubes from many places. Yes they can be expensive, as well they can be cheap.. if you know what you are doing, which it appears you may not?? You do not have to buy new tubes, you just need a reputable source and someone that you can trust and the difference is night and day in many amps. IMO most new production tubes are junk compared to 50's and 60's.
You can chastise me all you want but when amp builders are coming to me for suggestions or general conversations regarding what should go where ...that is my justification that I am doing something right. I see no ideas from you other than incorrect statements.

Mulard relabeled tubes can be found cheap as can many others, and my other suggestion about a speaker swap are both two proven things that would help OP with his problems.

What are your ideas fella?
 
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