Luthiers, please give me insight neck relief not even

Rogueaverage616

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Hi guys, i just measured the relief, on my high E string,and found that it is 3-4 thousandths less reief than my low E string.I have sighted the neck from the too of the headstock down the neck,and i dont see any twist.But researching this issue, i have read many replies that say this is normal, and some say that many of there custom shop les pauls are line this, a d i read that the neck is twisted.Now all my guitars seem to be like this to some degree,just with maby a lesser difference...photo below on next post
 
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charlie chitlins

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I think most necks are a little twisted because of the extra tension of the fat strings.
You wouldn't be able to see it by sighting down the fretboard.
You probably want a little extra relief there, anyway...although I doubt it's ever engineered in. I've never heard of that, anyway.
BTW...I'm not a luthier...just a decent tech.
 

BPW666

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How are you measuring? That's a very small difference, unless it's not playing right don't worry about it.
 

Freddy G

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You probably want a little extra relief there, anyway...although I doubt it's ever engineered in. I've never heard of that, anyway.
Having a tiny bit less relief on the treble side is perfect. It is a sophisticated (intentional or not) way to set relief. And yes Charlie, I do engineer that into my necks, and also when I do fret level jobs as much as possible.
 

Rogueaverage616

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I am measuring by capoing the first fret, fretting the last fret and measuring anywhere between the 7th to 12th fret by tapping the low E and high E, and seeing the clearence the amount of travel between the strings and the fret tops, my 2017 Traditional, looks to have a larger gap between the low E and the too of the fret, and the high,E and the top of the fret.I then measured with feeler guages, and the low E is at 6 thousandths releif, as i set the guitar up to have, using feeler guages, but i finally went to check the releif at the high E, and it is 3-4 thousandths less...my dad a master machinist, got mad when i pulled him away from his work to check this, because he said 3-4...even 5 thousandths of a difference in releif between both strings is absolutely nothing, in that 5 thousandths is nothing, and since this guitar is built out of wood, thats subject to change, he feels that Gibsons engineers absolutely would say thats within spec...but i need advice from you guys too
 

LtDave32

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I don't think I've seen too many necks that are even in relief when tuned to pitch. Bass side always seems to have a hair more relief than the treble side.

Its wood. Under tension. It's just the way it goes sometimes.
 

Freddy G

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I am measuring by capoing the first fret, fretting the last fret and measuring anywhere between the 7th to 12th fret by tapping the low E and high E, and seeing the clearence the amount of travel between the strings and the fret tops, my 2017 Traditional, looks to have a larger gap between the low E and the too of the fret, and the high,E and the top of the fret.I then measured with feeler guages, and the low E is at 6 thousandths releif, as i set the guitar up to have, using feeler guages, but i finally went to check the releif at the high E, and it is 3-4 thousandths less...my dad a master machinist, got mad when i pulled him away from his work to check this, because he said 3-4...even 5 thousandths of a difference in releif between both strings is absolutely nothing, in that 5 thousandths is nothing, and since this guitar is built out of wood, thats subject to change, he feels that Gibsons engineers absolutely would say thats within spec...but i need advice from you guys too
Maybe you shouldn't have gotten him mad. BTW....5 thousandths is not nothing.
 

tabascom16

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Not exactly sure what measurement you are specifically talking about here, or how you measured it that accurately to begin with. If it is relief when clamping the strings down and measuring somewhere in the middle of the fretboard, I would expect this to be someone normal? There is a lot more tension on the fat strings, that from engineering statics courses would tell you that side of the fretboard would bow more.

Is a fret buzzing, or something else bothering you when playing it that you even got to this point?

That is a very small measurement when talking about things made of wood.
 

pshupe

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There is a lot more tension on the fat strings, that from engineering statics courses would tell you that side of the fretboard would bow more
Is this true? I thought there was more tension on the 3 treble strings?? I actually built a 12 string for a guy that wanted a carbon fibre rod on the treble side only.

Regards Peter.
 

tabascom16

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Actually...maybe my words weren't the best here. I did not mean to be stupidly redundant, but looking back at the words....oy vey. The strings are more balanced in tension than one might think. It is not like the big E has 50lb of tension, and the small E 1lb of tension. But a few to several pounds difference across multiple strings add to up easily bend/twist a piece of wood that was originally worked straight a few thousandths of an inch.
 

LtDave32

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Everybody's guitar isn't perfect. There isn't a perfect guitar on the planet, one way or another.

I wouldn't worry about it.
 

StudioFan

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Is this thread even for real ?

The guitar is ridiculously within spec FFS !
 

ARandall

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Some people think guitars have to be set up (or indeed made) with the precision of an atomic clock. Only to realise the very act of playing them makes them out of tune.

Life's so much easier when you discard the micrometer.
 

Rogueaverage616

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Is this thread even for real ?

The guitar is ridiculously within spec FFS !
This thread was made, because after finding that one of my $2600 Gibson les pauls had different relief measurements,between,the low E and high E, and after reading a post about properly setting relief in a neck, means, too measure the final measurement, on both the low and high e string...and after doing so ,as i said.i found each measurement to be different....i then found after reasearching and reading from other people with the same situation, as me,that people said that (your neck is twisted....no...its fine its normal....no your neck has a twist...it needs to be fixed...you know?? $2500?? I checked a couple of my other guitars, and some have a difference in relief,and some are completely the same, or closer to the same.Then this les paul looks to have the high e just about touching the fret while the low is at about 6 thousandths of a gap,while measuring for relief...so i needed to ask this question myself....remember...i read that the measurement should be the same on both strings, or else your neck is twisted
 

pshupe

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This thread was made, because after finding that one of my $2600 Gibson les pauls had different relief measurements,between,the low E and high E, and after reading a post about properly setting relief in a neck, means, too measure the final measurement, on both the low and high e string...and after doing so ,as i said.i found each measurement to be different....i then found after reasearching and reading from other people with the same situation, as me,that people said that (your neck is twisted....no...its fine its normal....no your neck has a twist...it needs to be fixed...you know?? $2500?? I checked a couple of my other guitars, and some have a difference in relief,and some are completely the same, or closer to the same.Then this les paul looks to have the high e just about touching the fret while the low is at about 6 thousandths of a gap,while measuring for relief...so i needed to ask this question myself....remember...i read that the measurement should be the same on both strings, or else your neck is twisted
One thing I have learned is asking a question on the internet, even a great forum like this one, is not like asking one experienced person. It's like asking a gymnasium full of people and having them answer all at once without listening to any other answer. The good thing about asking the question to so many people is you get a quick response. The bad thing is that so many people have different thoughts on the subject.

I think 5 or 6 thousands isn't much to be concerned about unless there is a problem. Like if you hear buzzing or anything else problematic. If it plays fine and there are no issues then do not worry about it.

Cheers Peter.
 


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