LP Junior TV

tache3

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Hello All,

With Gibson's official serial number search page being unavailable at the moment and while I await a reply from them to my email enquiry, would anyone be kind enough to help date this TV Yellow Jr that belongs to a friend of mine. The two popular online serial number dating sites have been no use- one claims that the result it provides is only valid if the serial is from a LP Classic and the other claims that it was built in 1968!

Its obviously a reissue but there is no case candy included, so no info there unfortunately. Many thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

PS. Yep- its a non original bridge.





 
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Slater529

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My guess would be 2003 or 2013... But would need a good close-up photo of the pots in the control cavity to get the date codes.
 

Tim Plains

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2013, because I doubt they made 2,700+ R9s in 2003, but the serial number looks a little off. I have a 2010 and I think the font looks slightly different. Not home right now to check. I also don't recall seeing any 59RI Juniors but am probably wrong there.

You can look at the Les Paul 101 thread at the top of this forum how to read Custom Shop serial numbers. Post #30.
 

lawrev

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I've owned several Custom Shop Juniors and Specials. That would be a 1959 reissue made in either 2003 or 2013. I'd love to hear the end result!
 

tache3

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He tells me that he bought it in Toronto in 2009, so that eliminates to 2013 theory. I've had a flick through the Vintage Guitar Magazine price guide and can find no mention of a '59 Jr reissue. A '58 DC VOS is listed (but no mention of a TV finish) as is a '6O Historic (but again no mention of a TV finish).
 

tache3

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My guess would be 2003 or 2013... But would need a good close-up photo of the pots in the control cavity to get the date codes.
Hmm...the plot thickens. He's sent me over this pic of the control cavity. However, its not the pots that have caught my attention but the red tinge to the paintwork under the cover.



I wonder if this is a standard cherry Jr reissue that has had a refin? That would explain the serial number discrepancy, no COA etc, the fact that the font is slightly different and the fact that there is no '59 RI listed in the price guide. It would seem to be a lot of work just to pass off an $1100 dollar guitar as a $2000 one though. Unless, of course, the truth of the story is that he has bought what he thought was a genuine 'vintage' instrument and is too sheepish to admit that it looks like he has been burned.

I think I'll have another quiet chat with him. Standby everyone.
 
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tache3

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OK, so I went over to my friends house to have a closer look at the guitar and pull the pots. I also got the full story of how he ended up with it.

He didn't buy the guitar himself, it was purchased in a guitar store in Toronto during 2009 by a client that he does a lot of work for. This guy apparently paid around $5000CAD for it and it was sold to him as being a vintage 1968 Jr. The buyer took the store's word for this. A few years later (2015) he then gave it to my friend as a thank you bonus, after a particularly long and intense work period.

My friend has kept the guitar in his home since then, but has recently decided to add it to his home insurance policy as an individual item with a declared replacement value. Hence, once the research started to find out its worth, the holes in the supposed history of the guitar started to appear.

So, we have today removed some of the parts and had a look under the hood. There is more red paint in the nooks and crannys (particularly in the control cavity once you can see under the pots) which adds evidence to the theory that it has had a refin. The pots date all the way back to 1977 so maybe the pickup does too (the clear bobbin period is late 60's through the 70's correct?). Shame about the broken bobbin.

So-as proposed earlier in the thread- could a working hypothosis be that it is a later Jr Reissue in Cherry that has been refinished in TV Yellow and passed off as a vintage instrument? What do you all think?









 

tache3

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Are you sure that is paint and not polishing compound?
The white stuff may be, as any residue could reduce down to a powder over time after it dries. Have to admit that I'm out of my depth there, though. Perhaps someone with more knowledge could advise.
 

tache3

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-Or grain filler?
Red grain filler? Is there such a thing?

I think that the grain was supposed to show through the finish (read that elsewhere so I better fact check that) back in the day. But why use a red filler?
 
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endial

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Red grain filler? Is there such a thing?

I think that the grain was supposed to show through the finish (read that elsewhere so I better fact check that) back in the day. But why use a red filler?
To make the pores/grain stand out in contrast to the yellow. A method described here (and I've seen other similar examples, but didn't look much farther than this one):

https://www.reranch.com/tv_yellow.htm

Towards the bottom of the page it details this.

Edit: Perhaps you should inquire in the Luthier Section about this. http://www.mylespaul.com/forum/luthiers-corner.26/

Also, check with the Vintage section for pics of cavities.

http://www.mylespaul.com/forum/vintage-les-pauls.7/
 
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tache3

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To make the pores/grain stand out in contrast to the yellow. A method described here (and I've seen other similar examples, but didn't look much farther than this one):

https://www.reranch.com/tv_yellow.htm

Towards the bottom of the page it details this.
Thanks, that is interesting. Definitely a possible explanation.

Also, check with the Vintage section for pics of cavities.
OK, so I had a browse over there and found these. First, a pretty clean cavity shot of a '60-



And a shot of a '56 singlecut-



Is there a hint of red/brown in both of these or am I seeing it because I want to see it? Or if there is, is it perhaps just a bit of the hue of the mahogony showing through?

I also found this, which is suggestive. A 59/60 Cherry that has had a TV Yellow refin (and a extra pot at some point). Compare this to the shot of my friend's example above-



Perhaps you should inquire in the Luthier Section about this.
Good idea, I'll do that. Thank you.

...it might be a copy. We need some clearer pics of the headstock shape, especially the “open book” part.
Standby, will get a few.
 


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