Looking for tips for fret nib repair.

[TwinGuitarAttack]

Hey all,

I have an issue with the fret nibs on my Les Paul standard. Over the years they've worn down and left some gaps and drops at various points along the high e. I have some gel style crazy glue, baking soda, and masking tape and am considering filling the gaps. Wondering if any of you have done this kind of thing before and can shed some light on how to approach it.

My Lester is well in need of a fret leveling job, but lacking the proper tools I'll be taking it to a tech when money allows, but I'm considering saving up for a full refret so I can completely remove the nibs. Just wanna put that out there as I'm mostly doing this as a "get me by" thing for a bit.

Appreciate any guidance you can offer on the task at hand!

Thanks!!

 

[LtDave32]

It would be helpful if you would show some pics of the issue..

But off the top of my head, if there is some separation between the fret and the nib, you might want to melt some binding material shavings that matches your binding in some acetone, then dab that goo in the gap.

 

[TwinGuitarAttack]

Can't figure out how to resize the picture so I can post it unfortunately. Best way I can think to describe it is that the nibs themselves look worn down so the frets look raised comparatively. There's not much of a gap at all moreso just a drop from the fret edge to what's left of the nib. The string doesn't get caught in a gap for example, but the frets don't seem to be raised at all.

Hope that helps a bit.

Where should I find some binding shavings, and source acetone? I'd say a hardware store or paint shop off the top of my head but I'm also incapable of figuring out how to post a picture here hahaha.

Thanks for the input!!

 

[ARandall]

I had a fretboard on a build that was just a bit tall for the binding I'd bought to make full size nibs. So I just dipped some binding in acetone and dragged it over the fret ends. That left enough bulk to make the nibs.

 

[cmjohnson]

Unless the guitar is a valuable vintage instrument, when refretting I'd personally recommend to the owner of the instrument that a superior fretjob will result by shaving the nibs off and doing a proper nipped tang overlaid ends fretjob. You'd never ever have to deal with the high E string getting stuck in the gap between the nib and the end of the fret.

My opinion here won't be loved by everybody. I'm sure of that. But Gibson started out doing the nibs in the binding rather than doing the fretwork with the tangs nipped back and the fret ends laid over the binding purely as a labor saving measure, and not for any other reason. They fretted the fingerboard, cut the fret ends dead flush with the board, then bound it. Then the nibs were done with (depending on the time period) one of two methods that trimmed the binding flush arouind the frets and the fingerboard as well. It was quick, easy, and saves at least an hour's labor or more.

I view the nibbed binding approach as the cheap and dirty labor saving approach that it was meant to be. I consider a well executed nibless fretjob to be dramatically superior and it is an art form in and of itself. I use this approach even when fretting UNBOUND fretboards. I fill in the open ends of the fret slot with matching wood dust and the result is a beautiful job that will never suffer from fret tangs popping out when the neck shrinks in cold weather and low humidity.

But if you really must keep the nibs and they're worn down, some matching ABS plastic binding and some acetone will let you make a plastic putty that can be used to rebuild the nibs.

 

[ARandall]

^ you must be really speedy at doing nibs then - superhuman even. Because every single time I've done nibs its an amazingly time consuming affair to do them. I've not yet come across a time saving way to get them right.
I'd put the labour time quite firmly the other way around by considerably more than you think they save.......if you'e looking at well done job

 

[Banastre]

1. Acetone can be had at a hardware store. The nib material to melt, if I may be so bold to suggest and as eventually you’ll remove then anyway...is to suggest you shave them off where you don’t use those frets, such as the last frets on the low E. Stick them in a small baby food glass jar with a few teaspoons of acetone , sealed, overnight or two, shaking it up every few hours, and dab on the goo as the LTee said. Sand smooth after dry. Done. Will look great, except where you shaved them from. BTW you’ll need to shave off more than you know!! It should be a goo like miracle whip or plain yellow mustard, not runny. If it is, add more sacrificial nibs. It will be settled in the bottom of the jar, but scrapping some out with a toothpick will tell you if it’s too runny or not.

 

[cmjohnson]

Have you seen the Gibson factory production videos? Their current nib trimming systems uses a flush trimming router bit that rides the frets and surface of the fingerboard. One fast pass along each side and the nibs are rough shaped just like that. Then they're finished out by people who've done it so many times that it's very quickly done.

 

[pshupe]

Yeah - that's what I do as well. Except for the part where I've done it so many times, its' done very quickly. I do not believe this is different than any process when building. Find a way you can expedite the process and it will go quicker.

This is from my first build about 8 yrs ago. I've done a few more since and frankly do not clamp any more. I just guide by hand at a slight angle so the but is aligned with the radius. If I were to make a bunch I'd make a jig to have them cut exactly. I also now have some mini flush trim bits that would work much better.

As I said with any process you have to think about order of operations to make it a bit quicker / easier. Ideally thickness the binding before you glue it on. Then use this type of jig, then bevel the edges. Once that is done there is very little cleanup around the edges that needs to be done. Especially if you use one of the miniature flush trim bits. Stew Mac sells them.

But as has been said prior, if you are not going for vintage accuracy, I would dump the nibs and extend the fret over top of the binding.

Cheers Peter.

 

[moreles]

I'm pretty sure nibs began as yet another of the fancy woodworking flourishes that have characterized old Gibsons. They may be done quickly and mechanically now. That's now. Back then, they were a sign of craftsmanship. For some of us, a good nib job feels and works great, feels great, and eliminates fret sprout, so it's not just some cosmetic thing. Of course, a really good conventional fret job is a beautiful thing, too, and robots and factory workers have gotten much better at this. Lt Dave's suggestion is excellenbt, and I'd do that, or I'd just leave it alone since you say it has no effect at all at present. Nibs are a preference item, of course. You can get LP binding material from numerous suppliers.

 

[LtDave32]

Have you seen the Gibson factory production videos? Their current nib trimming systems uses a flush trimming router bit that rides the frets and surface of the fingerboard. One fast pass along each side and the nibs are rough shaped just like that. Then they're finished out by people who've done it so many times that it's very quickly done.

Is that what this thread is about?

We're not going to have an argument in here, nor is the Luthier's Corner going to turn into the Backstage.

The man asked a question on how to repair gaps in his binding nibs. Either advise on that specifically if you have the know-how, or leave it be.

It has become increasingly argumentative in this corner of the forum. That's not how it used to be in here, and I am going to take special attention towards returning it to its former spirit.

 

[Freddy G]

some matching ABS plastic binding and some acetone will let you make a plastic putty that can be used to rebuild the nibs.

^ This is all your post needed to be

 

[TwinGuitarAttack]

Appreciate all the input guys. Been working the last few days so haven't had a chance to check in.

To cover a couple of points, I'm not concerned about vintage spec in this regard. Just a way to improve playability while I await the opportunity to refret and remove the nibs all together. This is an early '08 Lester, so while I try to get the appointments as vintage accurate as possible in terms of hardware and electronics the nibs have proven to be a downside, pretty as they may be. I reckon if I had to refret an original burst I'd opt to do the same unless it where a museum quality sort of example. Sacrilege perhaps, but I'd prefer the playability over aesthetic as far as worn out nibs go.

Doesn't seem like anyone's done the ol' crazy glue trick though. The plastic and acetone is definitely on the table but I'm wondering if it might be a bit overkill for something I'm looking to do away with when I can afford to.

Thanks as always everyone!

 

[pshupe]

Appreciate all the input guys. Been working the last few days so haven't had a chance to check in.

To cover a couple of points, I'm not concerned about vintage spec in this regard. Just a way to improve playability while I await the opportunity to refret and remove the nibs all together. This is an early '08 Lester, so while I try to get the appointments as vintage accurate as possible in terms of hardware and electronics the nibs have proven to be a downside, pretty as they may be. I reckon if I had to refret an original burst I'd opt to do the same unless it where a museum quality sort of example. Sacrilege perhaps, but I'd prefer the playability over aesthetic as far as worn out nibs go.

Doesn't seem like anyone's done the ol' crazy glue trick though. The plastic and acetone is definitely on the table but I'm wondering if it might be a bit overkill for something I'm looking to do away with when I can afford to.

Thanks as always everyone!

Frankly I think the plastic and acetone to make goop is the easiest fix for you. CA glue can go bad really quickly unless you are really careful. I drop filled the back of a neck the other day and thought I was carefull. I had a dam made up. I took all the tape off and it looked great. I went to change strings and there is a blob of CA on the fret board. DOAH.

Cheers Peter.

 

[cmjohnson]

I agree, acetone/binding goop IS easier than using CA to fill and rebuild binding. I will use CA to secure a bit of loose binding, though.

 

[TwinGuitarAttack]

Awesome, thanks guys!

I'll look into getting some acetone and plastic in the next bit while I keep saving for the eventual refret. When the time comes I'll probably be asking for some help in regards to your approaches to the task. Definitely don't wanna get glue on my board, which is my main concern with the CA approach.

You all rule!!

 

[ashbass]

IMO getting super glue on the finish is worse than on the fret board. I've done both. On the board I've been able to scrape it off without bad looking results. On the body? The razor blade scrape.

 

[Roxy13]

It's probably ABS binding. ABS is a type of plastic. Someone will correct me if Gibson uses some other material, but I'm pretty sure it's not celluloid these days.

At any rate you would get a piece of binding and it won't really matter what size it is since you are going to melt it anyway. Matching the color is the important thing. And you put shavings from it in a jar with acetone. The acetone will melt it and you want like a paste consistency like toothpaste or maybe a bit thinner. Build up your missing nibs with it, and let it dry. Then you can use files to shape it nicely.

I don't know what country you live in to suggest places that sell binding. I've gotten some black and white for customs from StewMac. And I've bought cream binding from Allparts in the US and also I've bought some on ebay from China that was a really nice cream color. I know someone had thought you might be in Japan. I think you can get some off Yahoo Japan. I'm pretty sure I've seen it looking at guitar parts there as I bring some home with guitars I buy in Japan sometimes.

 

[LtDave32]

I had a fretboard on a build that was just a bit tall for the binding I'd bought to make full size nibs. So I just dipped some binding in acetone and dragged it over the fret ends. That left enough bulk to make the nibs.

I learned a tip from Freddy G on cutting nibs.

You take a 5/8 or so chisel, tape off one side with Scotch tape, leaving the width of the binding on the chisel exposed.

*Important: Be sure to leave a flap of tape about 3/ 8 to a half inch long extending over the chisel edge. Just make the tape wrap-over longer and don't hug the cutting area. This is extremely important to protect your fret board. That's what the flap does.

Kind of like the flap-end on a riding crop, for those who know equestrian things.

Hold it bevel-down at an angle. Let the taped area ride on the fret board. Let the exposed chisel area cut the binding.

*Also important: I find the tape lasts for about 3 or 4 nib cuts. So re-do it every 3.

Do the same for the other direction by reversing the position of the tape over to the other side of the chisel.

Since I started doing it this way, I've yet to nick a fret board. But again, do only 3 at a time in one direction, then refresh the tape.

This method of three nibs includes making two or three passes per nib to get the binding down to FB level.

It's a bitch to re-do the tape every three nibs, and you have to do the same damn thing to the other side and the other direction. But it leaves for a nice, clean and level area between nibs, and it cuts right up to the fret.

I did @VictorB 's R8 in just this method:

(click on image to enlarge a bit)

 

[VictorB]

I learned a tip from Freddy G on cutting nibs.

You take a 5/8 or so chisel, tape off one side with Scotch tape, leaving the width of the binding on the chisel exposed.

*Important: Be sure to leave a flap of tape about 3/ 8 to a half inch long extending over the chisel edge. Just make the tape wrap-over longer and don't hug the cutting area. This is extremely important to protect your fret board. That's what the flap does.

Kind of like the flap-end on a riding crop, for those who know equestrian things.

Hold it bevel-down at an angle. Let the taped area ride on the fret board. Let the exposed chisel area cut the binding.

*Also important: I find the tape lasts for about 3 or 4 nib cuts. So re-do it every 3.

Do the same for the other direction by reversing the position of the tape over to the other side of the chisel.

Since I started doing it this way, I've yet to nick a fret board. But again, do only 3 at a time in one direction, then refresh the tape.

This method of three nibs includes making two or three passes per nib to get the binding down to FB level.

It's a bitch to re-do the tape every three nibs, and you have to do the same damn thing to the other side and the other direction. But it leaves for a nice, clean and level area between nibs, and it cuts right up to the fret.

I did @VictorB 's R8 in just this method:

(click on image to enlarge a bit)

View attachment 574886

And the workmanship is beyond perfect.

Dave is truly a master at this stuff.

The guitar he worked on: