Listen: wiring makes a huge difference, read on..

[Horse]

Did you also wire the toggle switch and the input jack with silver wire?

yes indeed.

 

[Horse]

I am also a believer in pure silver wire and silver solder in pursuit of better transparency and clarity. I have been messing ard with wiring and cables on my audiophile equipments for years and now my fav silver wire is from Mundorf that has abit of gold in the alloy to tame the treble.

It would seems to me though that the pickup leads matter most since that's where the source of the signal is and therefore they are the weakest link in the chain. Changing out the rest would help for sure but probably not as much as the pickup leads....agree? How does one change out the pickup leads anyway? I would love to tinker with that and experiment

The main reason i havent done the pickups leads yet is that i too thought... how the heck do i do it! Being a novice with pickups i didnt want to make a wrong step..

 

[ducblancpale]

Guess you are all covered except for the pickup leads

 

[redlir]

Guys,

I come from a hifi audio background, worked for B&W loudspeakers for years, became an 'audiophile'. Lets just say im a perfectionist with sound quality.

The point:

I have modded all my guitars, used 'vintage' braided wire you all like and proper audio wiring on different guitars.

Result?:

Stuff they sell as vintage braided wire is sorely lacking. I made my Epiphone les paul into the most open, harmonic, 3D sounded guitar i have ever played. Because i wored the whole thing with solid silver Kimber audio wire.

Id doesnt matter one iota what the damn it looks like. it may look pretty and vintage but it aint doing you any favours. This is one area where i see NO debate and improvement on, so im having my say.

Please done stop you search for better tone when you have tried every permutation of pups, caps etc.

change your wiring! just my 2 cents.

Nuff said.

What brand etc are you using?

I've been using Gotham GAC-2 install cable that I had purchased for a patchbay install. I'd be curious into looking into silver if you have details.

Cheers

 

[5F6-A]

Yuo can go overkill and probably herar a very slight improvement. Still I trust what peoiple did at the Kalamazoo factory in the 50's.... probably the best compromise and the result of using has shaped our ears anyway.

 

[Horse]

What brand etc are you using?

I've been using Gotham GAC-2 install cable that I had purchased for a patchbay install. I'd be curious into looking into silver if you have details.

Cheers

Im not totally sure, it was given me by my best bud at B&W loudspeakers about 14 years ago, but i think he said it was NVA solid core silver. About 150quid per 2 metre pair back then .

Look for some options, like this one:

(and see the recommendations box )
49' 12 AWG Silver Plated Kapton Wire white 19 strands - eBay (item 230472587898 end time May-17-10 02:04:18 PDT)

I havent tried stranded silver but solid core is known to be a little more cohesive and smoother.

 

[Horse]

Yuo can go overkill and probably herar a very slight improvement. Still I trust what peoiple did at the Kalamazoo factory in the 50's.... probably the best compromise and the result of using has shaped our ears anyway.

I do appreciate what you say mate, I totally understand those who want the vintage vibe in every way so as to have something close to what was used back then.

But, there is a point where holding to a certain idea can hold you back. We all look for improvements in tone right? what i am talking about is 'more' of the TONE we love from LPs. The change to silver just moved things on a notch, more of everything.

Some of us like raucous, some of us like smooth, and high purity modern cabling of either copper or silver or hybrids can bring you more of whatever LP flavour you love.

Im certainly not trying to say anything modern is good - in some ways we are hamstrung by hardware that isnt made the same because of modern materials and manufacturing - like pickup magnets.

I would be very interested to know how much they did experiment though, Im wondering if solid silver was a known option back then?

Anywhooooo, just wanting to give my mates here a thing to think about!

 

[5F6-A]

 

[Horse]

Guys, after we talked about the wiring to the pups i went and wired the neck pup with the same silver wiring. Just as i wanted it sounds great, this is a smooth, open buttery jazz/blues tone i absolutely love!

As a further experiment, as i was not happy with the neck pup in this guitar anyway - as it lacks bottom end - i then changed it to an Epi LP neck pup i had lying around. I really like these Epi neck pups, and now the guitar osunds even better, more low end and more of everything

 

[180gROC]

I'm all for chasing down weakest links. I've done plenty of it and have been happy with the result for the most part. My problem with this is that it's half done until you've changed the pickup leads, and it doesn't end there.

If you're gonna start this you are not done with this until you've wound the pickups with silver wire.

I guess I could see how having the switch and jack wiring could make some difference, but if the argument is that braided with copper is the weak link, you may still have quite a bit of it coming from the pickups until you dig into it.

Changing leads isn't hard, unless you break the (copper) start wire on a coil. Then you got a fridge magnet.

 

[Horse]

I'm all for chasing down weakest links. I've done plenty of it and have been happy with the result for the most part. My problem with this is that it's half done until you've changed the pickup leads, and it doesn't end there.

If you're gonna start this you are not done with this until you've wound the pickups with silver wire.

I guess I could see how having the switch and jack wiring could make some difference, but if the argument is that braided with copper is the weak link, you may still have quite a bit of it coming from the pickups until you dig into it.

Changing leads isn't hard, unless you break the (copper) start wire on a coil. Then you got a fridge magnet.

Now you got me thinking....

I have a spare pup i can rewind.. I could maybe scatterwind it with silver wire..if i can find some!

 

[gtr-tek]

This is all well and good and I definitly agree with wire being critical in the signal path. To me, it seems that music CREATION is different than music REPRODUCTION. We don't want flat response speakers in our guitar amps, for instance, but we do in our stereo systems and mixing environments. To me, good wire must have proper shielding to keep unwanted noise from entering the signal and low capacitance from coloring the sound too much. The guitars revered in this forum, particularly Bursts, were made from the best components available at the time. A very happy mix at that and PURE LUCK. They didn't test them with Marshall stacks! Almost none of the electronics were designed for guitars specifically, they used what they deemed appropriate from what they coud get from electronics suppliers. 400 volt capacitors! Not by design, but what they could get. Same for the shielded conductor wire used in them. Also, remember that the signal levels we are dealing with here are in the millivolt region. Capacitance and resistance are the main factors here.

It just depends on what sound you are looking for. What is "better" is subjective generally. What sounds good is for you to decide.

Wiring pickups with silver wire would be very different sounding, I would think. It would create a new sound, but probably not replicate the "old" sounds very well. Not that this is necessarily bad, just different.

Experiment away!

 

[Raz59]

The guitars revered in this forum, particularly Bursts, were made from the best components available at the time. A very happy mix at that and PURE LUCK.

You mean "weren't made" right? Because after reading a lot around this forum I have come to learn that the bursts weren't made with the 'best' ingredients (best referring to what they deemed best at the time).

The best woods would be saved for the top shelf models like the archtops and such.

Now, speaking of sound fidelity: I see some people preaching on the qualities of using wires that color the sound a bit because that makes the guitar sound vintagey...and, IMHO, that's a bit deluded...especially after hearing a guitar with an active buffer built in the guitar's circuit.
I don't see how people would forfeit that immense clarity for something that can be simulated by rolling off the tone knob.

And pickups made with silver wire?
I'd like to hear how that sounds!!

 

[Maestro and the Muse]

As a further experiment, as i was not happy with the neck pup in this guitar anyway - as it lacks bottom end - i then changed it to an Epi LP neck pup i had lying around. I really like these Epi neck pups, and now the guitar osunds even better, more low end and more of everything

Sometimes 'low-end' pickups really speak to a guitar, and it's almost as if they're made for it. With every GFS pickup I've tried (Mean 90s, Vintage '59s, and now Alnico IIs) it's like they were designed specifically for my Epi LPC, with the exact tone in mind that I was looking for. They get this smoothy, creamy jazz/blues tone, and they tend to make their pickups such that the rhythm is a little less bassy than 'normal', and the treble is a little less trebley/shrill. Fits right in with my vision for this guitar. As a comparison, I've tried Fralins and SD Jazz/JB, and settled still on GFS pickups.

The only reason I've switched them over time is for variety in my setup (90's for '59's when I bought my strat, and '59s for Alnico IIs when I bought my BB Pro-loaded gibby).

 

[Horse]

.

And pickups made with silver wire?
I'd like to hear how that sounds!!

I have decided to make one if i can source correct wire, watch this space....

 

[gtr-tek]

You mean "weren't made" right? Because after reading a lot around this forum I have come to learn that the bursts weren't made with the 'best' ingredients (best referring to what they deemed best at the time).

The best woods would be saved for the top shelf models like the archtops and such.

Now, speaking of sound fidelity: I see some people preaching on the qualities of using wires that color the sound a bit because that makes the guitar sound vintagey...and, IMHO, that's a bit deluded...especially after hearing a guitar with an active buffer built in the guitar's circuit.
I don't see how people would forfeit that immense clarity for something that can be simulated by rolling off the tone knob.

And pickups made with silver wire?
I'd like to hear how that sounds!!

I'm referring to ELECTRONIC components. They didn't seem to diferentiate models when it came to capacitor and potentiometer QUALITY. Wood is a whole 'nother story.

I agree with your assessment on the wires.

The silver wound pup would be interesting! I wonder if the gauge of wire would need to be different. Many dynamics would change depending on the sound one would want.

 

[Horse]

Im looking into the silver wire for a pickup.... will keep you posted....

 

[redlir]

Im looking into the silver wire for a pickup.... will keep you posted....

Sweet, that'll be a cool experiment anyway!

I may get the leads on my pickups to the pots changed, just to see if there is any audible difference. I'm not expecting a whole lot, but this is a game of inches when you get down to it.

Speaking of upgrades, I just received my PEC pots.. man are these things smooth and solid! I'm going to toss in some auricaps and redo the cavity and switch with silver wire as well. But of course, I'll have to experiment outside the guitar too with a silver wire patch cable to the amp... that's where I'm stopping though. NO WAY am I redoing my plexi build or rewiring a DR Z lol.

Cheers

 

[Horse]

Sweet, that'll be a cool experiment anyway!

I may get the leads on my pickups to the pots changed, just to see if there is any audible difference. I'm not expecting a whole lot, but this is a game of inches when you get down to it.

Speaking of upgrades, I just received my PEC pots.. man are these things smooth and solid! I'm going to toss in some auricaps and redo the cavity and switch with silver wire as well. But of course, I'll have to experiment outside the guitar too with a silver wire patch cable to the amp... that's where I'm stopping though. NO WAY am I redoing my plexi build or rewiring a DR Z lol.

Cheers

Thats cool, promise to report back when you have done the wiring, id be very interested to hear what you think

 

[fretboarder]

ive had good hifi stuff like nad marantz and some other's and some good speakers like B&W and the first thing i knew was to sack all the crappy leads and speaker wire and get some good quality interconnects and silver speaker wire it does make a big diffrence..

so im guessing it will be the same with wire on guitars..