LesPaul setup

picoman

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HI guys!
Are you strings touching the back of the tune-o-matic bridge becuase youre tailpiece is all the way down?
Stings are on the very step angle behind the brdge
Any problems?
 

grumphh

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Wrong subforum, but anyway - just raise the tailpiece if strings touching the back of the bridge bother you.

Hint: That is why the tailpiece is height adjustable.
 

ARandall

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That vid just seems to be saying "I don't know very much here' in the part where you have linked it to.

Top wrapping reduces the forward and downward pressure on the bridge (reduced break angle), with the added ability to screw the tailpiece studs all the way down without hitting the back of the bridge. This pressure makes for possible bridge lean, tuning issues, string breakage as well as possible dead sounding strings/odd harmonic content if it hits the rear of the bridge in the wrong way.
Reduced angle has upsides and downsides. It contributes to the strings feeling a bit slinkier for vibrato and bendin, as there is less resistance to the string doing the slight movement over the fulcrum.
You don't want 'little to no angle', as the strings can simply pop out of the saddles. This is effectively how the video has the guitar setup. Given he has the t/p studs really high, I think this really accentuates the fact that the author has very little idea on setup fullstop.

Topwrapping is only a solution where you want both full thread engagement on the tailpiece studs and to avoid a sharp angle over the bridge/strings touching.
Not all guitars have this scenario.
And indeed you can simply raise the tailpiece until you have a better angle......thats the whole reason why it has slotted screwdriver mouldings on the studs after all.
 

CerebralGasket

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My '58 RI Les Paul Junior DC is very easy to setup and that's the only guitar where I top wrap for obvious reasons.



Pictured below is a caved in Nashville bridge on a second hand SG that I purchased where the previous owner decked the tailpiece.



Pictured below are a Nashville and ABR-1 next to each other and then the Nashville by itself that was already collapsed. I wanted to test its tensile strength and finished it off by bending it by hand with pliers until it snapped.







With a TOM bridge and tailpiece setup, one can either raise the tailpiece height or top wrap the strings over the tailpiece to prevent the above from happening.
 
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picoman

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"It contributes to the strings feeling a bit slinkier for vibrato and bending "

Doesnt appear so in the video when he grabs his instrument.....
 

ARandall

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"It contributes to the strings feeling a bit slinkier for vibrato and bending "

Doesnt appear so in the video when he grabs his instrument.....
I have not watched that part of the video, but his lack of apparent awareness in the bit I have watched makes me immediately discount any conclusions he might draw.
Plus the countless other anecdotes from others who do know more seemingly about the same effect on this forum, then the same thing about strats and reverse headstocks making the strings feel different (the same effect), plus then the countless tinkering I have done on the 50+ guitars I have set up in many ways confirms this.

So my opinion is based on personal knowledge plus the addition of other's.
Not just from guessing an appearance on a video on one guitar.

Yep, having a large sample size and knowledge of scientific method for sure does make a lot of difference when it comes to making conclusions.
 

Bogmonster

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Just my 2 cents here...

I've been top wrapping my LP's for years now after being recommended by my buddy who used to set up my guitars. I never really thought too much about it other than hearing Bonamassa, Gibbons, Wylde and Page did it so I was all up for it. If I didn't like it I could just go back.

I actually really liked the way the strings felt and my hand was actually more comfortable resting on the bridge when picking (I know others hated this but I actually liked it). I didn't really notice much difference with sustain (maybe a little more??).

Recently I went back to the normal way and I definitely noticed a difference in feel. The strings felt slightly stiffer and my vibrato seemed to lose some of the nuances. I didn't care for it at all. So I went back to top wrapping after a week or so, just to give the normal method a try in case it was all in my head.

Bottom line, it absolutely changes the way the strings feel. Not to the extent that some suggest but there 100% is a difference. And that's the way I like it myself. The jury is still out on sustain but I didn't really notice a difference. It might vary from guitar to guitar.
 

northernguitarguy

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I tried top-wrapping. However, when combined with Eb tuning, I found I was often pulling sharp on chords, especially with the jumbo frets on my LP Special. I did not get any increase in sustain that I could tell.
 

picoman

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One thing more that I dont get on topwraping phenomen.
When you watch all those youtube videos on seting up acoustic guitar, all luthiers say that the sharper the angle that strings made from the pins to the saddle, the more better tone and more sustain youll get on your guitar.
When top wrapping, your actualy pushing this angle towards horizontal, making it smaller
So tone wise, top wrapping should alos be BULL...HIT
 

ARandall

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^ Thats because you have not considered (or don't know) that the two scenarios are wholly different. In the case of the acoustic saddles, you effectively have a string termination at the saddle. You need to have a very abrupt edge to stop buzzing or sitar effects......but that is exactly the same as the nut. The rest of the string length beyond the acoustic saddle does not act like the strings behind the bridge or nut, as effectively there is no stretchable length beyond the scale length. The whole 'slinky feeling' part is due to the string pulling slightly through both saddles and nut slots. The shallower the angle the lower friction to this occurrence.
Where are "all the videos about acoustic guitar setup".......I have no confidence that you are quoting quality videos with people that actually know what they are talking about given the last vid featured a complete duffer.

But in any case, merely looking at any acoustic will show you a similar angle to the median TOM+tailpiece setup anyhow - certainly not a 'steep' angle as you seem to be trying to make out.

The second point here is that nobody who topwraps does it so there is no angle over the saddles.......just less than the amount that would lead to strings hitting the back of the bridge. There is still plenty of angle.

You seem to be trying to dictate the narrative such that any less angle than one that invites bridge collapse is going to be detrimental for tone........which it absolutely isn't. But in every case you are not doing this from any experience, but from highly uneducated guesses......with the addition of deliberately ignoring those who have had any experience in the matter.
 
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grumphh

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Just remember that on the internet you are absolutely forbidden to raise your tailpiece in order to reduce the break angle.

...the loss of sustain from a tailpiece that is not clamped down thoroughly is catastrophic!!!

Also, Duane Allman did top wrap some 50 years ago, and who's going to argue with a dead guy?
 

northernguitarguy

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Just remember that on the internet you are absolutely forbidden to raise your tailpiece in order to reduce the break angle.

...the loss of sustain from a tailpiece that is not clamped down thoroughly is catastrophic!!!

Also, Duane Allman did top wrap some 50 years ago, and who's going to argue with a dead guy?
Your posts are like married sex....the same thing, twice a month.
 

grumphh

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Your posts are like married sex....the same thing, twice a month.
So, pointing out the obvious (namely that Gibson made the tailpice height adjustable) is now frowned upon ?

I mean, top wrap all you like, for whatever reason you like - just don't try t make it out as anything other than a complication for the sake of complication (or perhaps some attempt to mimick the guitar heros that play 50 year old music) - because the problem of steep break angles was already solved by the designers of the Les Pauls tailpiece....
...i mean, they could have nailed it to the top or screwed it tight with wood screws (and it would have been cheaper) - but no, they actually have provided a threaded insert for the adjustable bolts that hold the tailpiece...
 




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