Les Paul tone mod

[Highroller54]

Hello,

I have a 2013 Les Paul Traditional, Factory Stock. I would like to know the most cost effective way to brighten up the neck pickup and take some of the brightness out of the bridge pickup. Will experimenting with different caps accomplish this or should I change pots?

The neck pickup seems to get a little muddy on the wound strings, unless I tweak the amp, but then the bridge pickup is way too bright, and I having to run the bridge tone control on 4 or 5, which helps but it takes away from the clearness of the pickup, kind of muffles it.

Rig:
Marshall DSL40C
2013 Les Paul Traditional
57 classic neck pickup
57 classic plus bridge pickup

 

[The_Nuge]

Hi!
I'd first rewire the guitar to 50s style. Although I start with 0.022 mF as a starting point with my caps, I also try 0.015 (brighter) and 0.033 (darker) if the 0.022s dont "work".
You could also try this tip from SD: Tinkering with Pickups 101 | Seymour Duncan Blog

Cheers

Es

 

[Frogfur]

Better saddles of solid brass, steel or stainless steel bridge posts that actually have real connectivity to the tone woods of the body. In other words, at least an inch long or close. Ditch the pot metal parts for either steel or aluminum[bridge post bushings and stop bar and posts.]

This will go a long long way into doing what you ask above. I did also swap the factory caps with Luxe Black Beauties which i believe to my ears at least, made an improvement in the over all sound of the LP.
Of all the changes i did, the saddles, bridge posts i think did the most. But even over that, i could still hear something i liked when i plugged in after the change in caps.

 

[2001standard]

Changing the volume pots to 550k in neck will help.

.015 pio cap on neck and 50s wiring should help.

Maybe lower pick up more on bass side. 1/8th inch to start/ 1/16th on treble side to start and go from there.

Good luck

 

[Highroller54]

Hi!
I'd first rewire the guitar to 50s style. Although I start with 0.022 mF as a starting point with my caps, I also try 0.015 (brighter) and 0.033 (darker) if the 0.022s dont "work".
You could also try this tip from SD: Tinkering with Pickups 101 | Seymour Duncan Blog

Cheers

Es

What type of caps do you recommend?

 

[Highroller54]

Changing the volume pots to 550k in neck will help.

.015 pio cap on neck and 50s wiring should help.

Maybe lower pick up more on bass side. 1/8th inch to start/ 1/16th on treble side to start and go from there.

Good luck

I've worked on the pickups and can get a real good tone on the neck, but the bridge is just too bright. Some of it has to do with the amp, it's bright to start with, but I like the way it sounds, I just need to mod the paul to get more of a balance between the two pickups.

Where can I get a top quality 550K pot and I assume I'll need a long shaft type.

 

[MATTM]

I've worked on the pickups and can get a real good tone on the neck, but the bridge is just too bright. Some of it has to do with the amp, it's bright to start with, but I like the way it sounds, I just need to mod the paul to get more of a balance between the two pickups.

Where can I get a top quality 550K pot and I assume I'll need a long shaft type.

Yep, long shaft is what you need and 50's wiring is a good idea. We just about always recommend that wiring method.

 

[ARandall]

Note that the 57 classics are a bit like this anyhow. You will no doubt get improvement in clarity from the wiring, but this is almost the opposite of what you want at the bridge.

 

[Emiel]

How are your pickups set up? You can fiddle around with the polepieces on both pickups in order to balance the strings, thus making the low end less and the high end/mid more prominent. Plus try lowering and highering the pickup itself.

This could act as a nice guide. Try it before purchasing anything.

1.Match the tops of the adjustable pole pieces with the Les Paul fingerboard radius, (12").

2.Set the outer polepieces (E) flush with the cover and adjust each to match the radius with the A and B polepieces several turns higher than the outside and the G and D strings the highest at 1/32" or more above the pickup cover.

3. Set each screw at opposing 45 degree angles as below:

/ \ / \ / \ or \ / \ / \ /

4. Now set the height of the pickup. Fret the E strings at the last fret then raise or lower each pick up until a 1/16th" gap exists between the bottom of the fretted strings and the top of the outside polepieces.

Switch between a clean and a dirty sound every now and then to hear the differences between the adjustments. Generally you set the polepieces on the neck pickup a bit higher and the pickup lower to brighten things up, with the bridge pickup you reverse this to get a fuller sound. Good luck.

 

[The_Nuge]

What type of caps do you recommend?

I like Orange Drops but I've just ordered a load of NOS Russian PIO caps to see if there's any improvement to be had.

Es

 

[Armitage]

Who thinks this stuff up?

Just back your neck pickup closer to the body. It'll have less output and won't be so woofy. Then when you set up your tone, the bridge won't be so bright.

 

[eddie_bowers]

This is a common problem for me.
I use this:
Mod Squad: Muddy sounding neck pickup? | Seymour Duncan Blog

It works great to de-mud the neck.
For the bridge add a larger value paper in oil cap.

if that doesn't get you there, raise the polepecies on the neck and Lowe the pickup itself.

I also saw this recently which sounds interesting:
Artie's De-Mud Mod is Magic!!!! (a review)

 

[Chadd]

first thing to do with the 57 in the neck is lower it and raise the pole pieces on the plain strings. It will make a significant difference and may help you with balance. After you do that, the other changes can help make the tone better overall.

 

[matthew bear]

just curious, how much gain are we using?

also, have you tried setting your controls at around halfway as a starting point on your guitar? If everythings on 10, it limits your ability to tweak from the guitar...(no offence, it's just some folks don't use their knobbies, and there's 4 of them...)

 

[Highroller54]

just curious, how much gain are we using?

also, have you tried setting your controls at around halfway as a starting point on your guitar? If everythings on 10, it limits your ability to tweak from the guitar...(no offence, it's just some folks don't use their knobbies, and there's 4 of them...)

I have tweaked and tweaked until I think I have a really good dianamic sound. Still looking for a little more vintage type sound but I'm real close.

Marshall DSL 40C set to half power 20watts, at higer gain setting, bed room type levels this amp really doesn't sound very good, but when you start pushing it as in the setting I have it really is a totally different animal and sound close to as good as the older Marshalls I've own ed over the year, and a lot less hassel and back pain to move around. Bang for the buck I don't know of anything that can even come close. A lot of people complain about this amp, but the more I exeriment with different settings the more the amp is outstanding for a 1 x 12 combo, and is loud enough to get over even the loudest drummers with out having to use a drum shield, even though you may need one for proper stage volume in small clubs. Using the setting I have below with very little adjustments and crank the volume up to around 8 and it sings vintage Marshall with great dianamics, roll off the volume and it cleans up nicely, and at these setting and a good set of tubes also very low noise floor.

I'm not using the green channel due to the fact is sound to different from the red, yes I know about the C19 mod but the amp is under warranty and don't want to screw with it. My settings are as follows:

Red channel classic gain, high gain button out
Gain on 5
Volume on 5
Treble on 2
Mid on 4
Bass on 4
Preseces on 5
Resonance on 5
Resonance switch in
Reverb on 3

Les paul

Bridge pickup set about a 1/4" from strings
Neck pickup set even with pickup ring
Both Pickups set slightly higher on the treble side
Also both pickup pole pieces adjusted for string balance, stair step
even volume string to string with treble side higher than the bass side.

Brigde pickup Tone on 5
Bridge Volume on 2, very clean sounding
Bridge Volume around 5 very good crunch
Bridge Volume around 7 very good lead sound
Bridge volume to 10 old Led Zep sound
Bridge tone on 10 very good old zep first album communication breakdown type sounding lead.

Neck pick up tone on 10
Neck volume on 2 very jazzy type sound
Neck volume on 4 to 5 nice bluesy type sound
neck volume on 7 to 10 very good Sach type sound

Now if I could just tighten up the neck pick wound string sound (mudier then I like) I would be really a happy camper.

at this time I do not run any effects, once I get this all worked out the way I like then I'll add something to it for enhancement. I'm sorta a purest type player, and effects are to enhance your sound not change or greatly color it..

 

[ARandall]

Sounds like you've got the volume/tone setup sorted.

The problem with the neck pickup sounds like.....the neck pickup. Given the tweaking you've done if you've not found the right balance then its not there. Its a soft A2 pickup, which means loose bass and muted highs as a rule. All my generic A2 pickups have been like that, and my Trad when I had the 57's in there were like that too.
Personally I feel you can do a LOT better than these as stock if you want to swap magnets (requires removing covers), or go for something a little nicer.
Seth Lovers are very good, and even some of the GFS Professional series with the A2 mags sound better than the 57's (and are dirt cheap).

Last option before replacement is to use the de-mud mod, which is to solder a .047 cap between the pickup hot lead an the volume pot lug.

 

[TheSandman]

You have a 2013 Les Paul Traditional?

 

[ruger9]

This is a common problem for me.
I use this:
Mod Squad: Muddy sounding neck pickup? | Seymour Duncan Blog

It works great to de-mud the neck.

I also saw this recently which sounds interesting:
Artie's De-Mud Mod is Magic!!!! (a review)

Anyone ever do both of these and can report how they compare? I've done the .047- it works- I would try the Artie's mod but I don't have the cap/res I need for it, so I figure I'd ask here... why would (IF it would) the Artie's cap/mod [500K + .01uf] be any better than the cap-only SD mod [.047uf only]?

 

[DavidRamey]

I just replace the muddy pickup with a pickup that doesn't have mud.

 

[ruger9]

I just replace the muddy pickup with a pickup that doesn't have mud.

Yeah, not doing that. They are PRS DGTs. You can't even buy them unless somebody with a DGT is selling them. They are excellent PAFs. And, EVERY PAF I have ever owned has this "woofy neck pickup issue".

It most likely has to do with the fact that I'm on the bridge pickup 90% of the time, and I se the amp for THAT pickup, nice and thick. Then when I switch to the neck it's too muddy. I can't set the amp for the neck pickup, because then the bridge will be too bright.

So now, back on topic.....