Les Paul Defects

Latearrival

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I think it is reasonable for an expensive Guitar to be made to a very high standard.

But let's not forget that 2 out of the 3 "Defects" highlighted by the originator of this thread are not defects at all, and the 3rd is debatable!

1) The maple cap shows through underneath the binding in the cut-away. I thought my traditional did not show this, but yes, there is a couple of mm of cap just visible. If you think about this, it is enevitable! the cut away effectively cross-sections the curved top. There are only 2 things Gibson could do to prevent this: Increase the depth of the binding (which would look ridiculous!), or reduce the thickness of the cap near the cut-away (probably equally undesirable)! The amount of cap showing through varies from one guitar to another because the tops are hand-carved! If you don't like this, then maybe a less "hand-made" guitar would suit you better!

2) There is a small indentation where the pick-guard screw has been removed! Again, this is somewhat inevitable - it's a fixing point for the pick-guard - Live with it! The solution is obvious - fit the pick guard!

3) The poor paint inbetween the end of the neck and the pick-up surround. This is (in my opinion) the only legitimate complaint. But it is a tiny defect in an area no-one can see, so I can't really see this as a big deal!
 

ACELUEK

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The lighter wood in the cutaway is perfectly normal. The other imperfections used to be unacceptable, but, unfortunately, people have been turning a blind eye to them, so they have become perfectly normal, as well. Gibson has no quality control, whatsoever. People keep buying them, so they keep sending them out, laughing all the way to the bank. For what these instruments cost, they should be absolutely perfect in every way, shape, and form. If PRS can do it, Gibson can do it.

You think the the pickguard being screwed down and causing a flat spot on the wood is unacceptable? Maybe Gibson should just barely screw it on so people can complain that the pickguard was loose.. This is what happens when you screw a flat piece of plastic onto a carved piece of wood with a soft nitro finish. Buy a Standard... no pickguard and no flat spot or hole from the screw..
 
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I think it is reasonable for an expensive Guitar to be made to a very high standard.

But let's not forget that 2 out of the 3 "Defects" highlighted by the originator of this thread are not defects at all, and the 3rd is debatable!

1) The maple cap shows through underneath the binding in the cut-away. I thought my traditional did not show this, but yes, there is a couple of mm of cap just visible. If you think about this, it is enevitable! the cut away effectively cross-sections the curved top. There are only 2 things Gibson could do to prevent this: Increase the depth of the binding (which would look ridiculous!)
Once again, that is exactly what they did in the '70's. People bitched and they changed it back, so the binding thing is indeed NOT a flaw in the OP's case.
 

River

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For the record, I don't think the wide binding through the cutaway looks ridiculous at all. My cream-bound natural '92 is done like that, and it looks "perfect" - as any fine furniture maker would do it. Done the "right" way on my R8, it DOES look like an "oops!" or design flaw. Not that I noticed nor cared until I abandoned common sense and started reading here. :)

008-6.jpg
 

mgenet

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This forum absolutely eats sh*te, and so do most of the people on it, it has put me off ever wanting to post anything on here again! If you want objective sensible advice, then I've learned the lesson of either speaking to the Manufacturer themselves or a pro. Most of the posts here are just mere opinions, if not 90% drivel, not overly constructiveare, the old addage here applies, opinions are like arseholes everybody's got one! I'm out of here and I don't care if the administrator cancel's my account!!!

Gee, I thought this was about Les Paul defecting to the enemy...sorry and thanks for your time, I will try another thread...
 

Latearrival

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For the record, I don't think the wide binding through the cutaway looks ridiculous at all. My cream-bound natural '92 is done like that, and it looks "perfect" - as any fine furniture maker would do it. Done the "right" way on my R8, it DOES look like an "oops!" or design flaw. Not that I noticed nor cared until I abandoned common sense and started reading here. :)

008-6.jpg

No, it doesn't look ridiculous like that, does it? I was assuming that Gibson would have to increase the size of the binding around the whole body (which would look a bit weird!). I didn't realise it was possible to increase the binding width in just one area only!
 

River

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No, it doesn't look ridiculous like that, does it? I was assuming that Gibson would have to increase the size of the binding around the whole body (which would look a bit weird!). I didn't realise it was possible to increase the binding width in just one area only!
I'm betting they're saving a LOT of time and material costs by doing it the vintage way.
 

zslane

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I think it is reasonable for an expensive Guitar to be made to a very high standard.

I agree, so long as "very high standard" isn't used, or thought of, as code for "absolute perfection." I would suggest that it is reasonable to expect expensive guitars to have a very high standard of production quality on average. But it is not reasonable to expect every single specimen, or even the vast majority, to be completely flawless. In a universe governed by the laws of entropy, this simply isn't possible.

Could Gibson take more (or better) steps to bump up the yield rate of "perfect guitars"? Probably. For one thing, they could go back to destroying those guitars that aren't perfect so that nobody ever sees/buys them. This would certainly raise the perception that Gibson guitars are the finest you can buy, and would eliminate threads like this one. But I'm guessing it would also raise the prices by at least a factor of 2.

This is one of the reasons I like to buy used. I get a "near mint" condition guitar (i.e., one with a few dings and dents and other trivial flaws) for almost half the cost. I'd rather save $1000 and live with a few imperfections that make that guitar unique, than pay top retail dollar for an instrument with zero flaws of any kind, a state which ain't gonna last long in my hands anyway. Between me and the perfectionists out there in the world, which of us do you think goes through life with less rage, stress, and disappointment? ;)
 

Dirtyclinic

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what about a lot of crackling around the gibson inlay logo? in the lacquer. i have that
 

Robo1975

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Hello Boys, you all still on this one, I've taken several chill pills since then, I admit I have a class 1 a.hole and threw my toys out of the pram! But I tell you what you are right, these issues I raised were minor and barely noticable, but I just was a bit peeved as it was a new guitar and I compared it to my other LP. But you know what I had a 4hr rehearsal with my band last Friday and used the Gold Top for the whole session and she played and sung beauttifuly, let's drop this old crap, I certainly get the point!! Again sorry, for being a reall cock, I did act out of line!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

guitarbob123

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Hello Boys, you all still on this one, I've taken several chill pills since then, I admit I have a class 1 a.hole and threw my toys out of the pram! But I tell you what you are right, these issues I raised were minor and barely noticable, but I just was a bit peeved as it was a new guitar and I compared it to my other LP. But you know what I had a 4hr rehearsal with my band last Friday and used the Gold Top for the whole session and she played and sung beauttifuly, let's drop this old crap, I certainly get the point!! Again sorry, for being a reall cock, I did act out of line!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At least you apologised :thumb:

Don't worry about it, we all have bad days and get worried/stressed!
 

dspelman

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Acceptance of crappy Gibson finish flaws, poor fretwork and other non-spec...um...features is part of the current price of admission to the I Drank The Gibson Kool Aid club. "It happens when the finish is soft" or "It happens when Gladys in Paint is too distracted to knock down the orange peel near the fretboard" or "This is common in hand-made guitars produced by unskilled labor" are the correct responses, and need to be learned by every club member. The all purpose answer is, "It gives it character."

Old joke. Man is having a custom-made suit done; his first ever. On final fitting day, he notices one sleeve is too long. "Oh, just hold your arm like this" says the tailor. The shoulders are off. "Just lean this way," says the tailor. One leg is too short. "Stand like this" says the tailor. And sure, enough it works. So the man leaves the store, bent over and looking distorted. Two ladies across the street notice him. "Oh my, would you look at that poor man" says the one. And the other replies, "Yes, but look how well his suit fits!"

The other option, which is anathema to the club, is to go elsewhere and buy a truly well-crafted instrument.
 

zslane

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The other option, which is anathema to the club, is to go elsewhere and buy a truly well-crafted instrument.

This is a really good idea.

What brand would you recommend to someone who wants a guitar matching a Gibson Les Paul in terms of specs (mahogany body, flame maple cap, mahogany set neck, dual humbuckers, body and neck binding, 2-vol/2-tone wiring, 24.75" neck scale length, etc.) and wants it for around $2k, new, without having it custom built (i.e., doesn't want to wait 8 weeks for it)?
 

onehippie

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Hello Boys, you all still on this one, I've taken several chill pills since then, I admit I have a class 1 a.hole and threw my toys out of the pram! But I tell you what you are right, these issues I raised were minor and barely noticable, but I just was a bit peeved as it was a new guitar and I compared it to my other LP. But you know what I had a 4hr rehearsal with my band last Friday and used the Gold Top for the whole session and she played and sung beauttifuly, let's drop this old crap, I certainly get the point!! Again sorry, for being a reall cock, I did act out of line!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we live and learn
 

ACELUEK

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"Oh my, would you look at that poor man" says the one. And the other replies, "Yes, but look how well his suit fits!"
Oh thats a good one... I see, I guess I'm like the this guy in the story.

Go ahead and buy some other brand, I'll take my Gibson Les Paul..
 

Thumpalumpacus

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Acceptance of crappy Gibson finish flaws, poor fretwork and other non-spec...um...features is part of the current price of admission to the I Drank The Gibson Kool Aid club. "It happens when the finish is soft" or "It happens when Gladys in Paint is too distracted to knock down the orange peel near the fretboard" or "This is common in hand-made guitars produced by unskilled labor" are the correct responses, and need to be learned by every club member. The all purpose answer is, "It gives it character."

Old joke. Man is having a custom-made suit done; his first ever. On final fitting day, he notices one sleeve is too long. "Oh, just hold your arm like this" says the tailor. The shoulders are off. "Just lean this way," says the tailor. One leg is too short. "Stand like this" says the tailor. And sure, enough it works. So the man leaves the store, bent over and looking distorted. Two ladies across the street notice him. "Oh my, would you look at that poor man" says the one. And the other replies, "Yes, but look how well his suit fits!"

The other option, which is anathema to the club, is to go elsewhere and buy a truly well-crafted instrument.

Oddly enough, the weakest part of any Gibson I've owned has been the guitarist playing it.
 

AngryHatter

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Here's an instrument that costs more than most of us will make in a lifetime of labor.
It is pocked with wormholes.
guadagnini.JPG

Why the pursuit of perfection? Especially in the field of stuff you want to look handmade?
 

DDcat

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The other option, which is anathema to the club, is to go elsewhere and buy a truly well-crafted instrument.

The third option is to go on an internet form and repeatedly imply that people are cliquey packs of sheep if they don't share your keen ability to not be able tell the difference between a 3000 dollar guitar and a 300 dollar guitar.
 

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