Legitimacy of Bursts in the marketplace – Real or Fake?

MikeyV

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Looking at those linked picture, the up close ones...I really feel like I'm looking at an aged historic...Just a feeling.

Going pic by pic:
1) that maple is way too clean. If a sweaty arm wore that paint off, I'd expect to see SOME dirt in there. Also, all of those nicks have ZERO dirt in them. Not to mention they just look fake...same size and even spacing. Also ZERO crazing.
2) Zero crazing again. Find a crack in that laquer. More totally clean even looking chips. Finish in this closeup looks VERY VOS-y
3) Pickguard looks new. And the pickguard bracked wear looks inconsistant with the wear at the point of connection to the pickguard. Binding ledge looks funky, but DOES look old.
4) Again, maple is too clean. should have dirt in the crevice between the paint edge and the bare wood. Wear on the binding looks like it was done with a tool (faceted)
5) Those chips tell me the neck ahs been off. No other way about it. Could it be a real neck w/ serial number and faked body? Dunno. Maple cap peek-a-boo window under the binding looks unstained. could be the photo.
6) more evidence of neck removal showing at the lacquer interface between heel bottom and body. Chipped lacquer. Also, the whole thing looks too shiny here.
7) Paint is really shiny here, and the pitting and corrosion of the strap button look out of place, compared to other metal on the guitar...but do look similarly corroded as the questionable pickguard bracket.
8) this strap button is a completely differnt color than the othe one.
9) board does look brazilian...refretted, or jsut the nibs taken off...looks OK here.
10) I dunno..the wear looks suspicious.
11) The laquer over the gibson logo shows NO yellowing. Compare this to the binding on the body, where the laquer is not worn off. it's super yellow, as it should be. Not a single craze on that headstock. Nicks on the dge of the headstock look fresh and look like they were made by the same "tool". LES PAUL logo suspiciously completely intact. The tuner bushings and posts look brand new, minus the shine. Compare them to the TRC screws, which look old. Tuner buttons look pretty new, when we see alot of them dark brown and crumbling.
12) Footpring of old tuners showing by the cherry red underneath (fake fading?) Tuners look pretty new, especially the screws. why is the serial all messed up if its under the finish? The super even wear on the top edge of the headstock looks like it was faked with a file. It looks purposly beveled/rounded.
13) Looks pretty clean in there...could be an old harness transplanted. Paint looks funny, and unchecked. The chew marks look contrived, although I do know they differ greatly.

Sh*t looks fishy. IMHO, of course.
 

Joshabr1

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The thing that has started to puzzle me is all the dings on the upper side of the top. Several seem to be the exact same mark or very close. Again no expert on les Paul's but held and owned a lot of old instruments don't see a lot of em dinged like that.Not sayin it couldn't happen. I think the guitar is old. But I can say no more because I don't know enough. Why would someone stick out their rep and name to deal w someone that has been screwy in the past if they were not very convinced it was real? A few people have gave this guitar the go right? Well it's a can of worms now that's for damn sure
 

delawaregold

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delawaregold-albums-9-0623-picture65209-90623b.jpg


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Busso

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Good eye, that does look a bit strange. Maybe the rings are not original to the guitar?
 

Ducati

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Any comments on this photo.

For a guitar that has been played this much, "hammered" as some have said:

wear.jpg


I would expect to see at least some light wear around the strap button. Some scuffing, dents, dullness, something to show that a guitar strap was put on and off or rubbing against that area hundreds and thousands of hours.

pin.jpg


Does this look like a guitar that has been through thousands of strap on/off cycles? It doesn't look to me like a strap has been on this guitar hardly at all. The finish is like glass. Did the "buffing" excuse this?

strap.jpg


For comparison this is a '53 that I play with a tooled leather strap. The wear is subtle but even around the base of the button you can see some changes.

comparison.jpg


So those are my comments on that photo. Any comments on this photo?

split.jpg
 

Zakmichael

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Just look at the obvious, with a top like that and so much wear, that guitar must have been played out. And nobody ever took a picture of it?! Who was beating on it with bracelets on, playing enough to go through 2 or more sets of frets? And nobody has ever seen it before? It looks like an AFD replica that got the full treatment, except it was never played with a strap! haha
 

VonPrikler

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Two things are pretty clear to me by this point in the thread.

1. Max is doing some amazing work these days.

2. I forget the other thing.
 

Ducati

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I am struck by the sharp perimeter of the unfaded red color. Could we guess that this is what we might expect like from a single fading session done by a focused UV light source up close, at a fixed angle? Would that yield a sharp line? Think of panda eyes from the tanning bed.

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Whereas a lifetime of natural exposure to UV light, from many different subtle angles as the earth moves around the sun, over many sessions, would produce a blurrier and less distinct transition from unfaded to faded.

Just a hypothesis...
 

VonPrikler

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I bet this would have cost $50,000 to build.
Parts/hardware and electronics, SG board and nut, case...
This would have been an expensive undertaking, not for the faint of heart.
All hypothetically speaking, of course.
 

devin dude

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After seeing all the photos posted in this thread has not changed my mind. The Mecca 'burst has worse seam separation. Without in-hand examination by more experts it would be hard to know from the photos alone, IMO.

Will add that ,if I were buying this guitar or the position to,(which I'm not) ,I would have passed as did JB when he saw it. :cool:

There's more than one really nice 'burst for sale at any given time.

Check this one out: Uncle Lou's Classic Guitars - Vintage Guitars, Used Guitars, New Guitars The once celebrity owned super flamed top example. That thing rocks. One can only dream. :slash:
 

yeti

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After seeing all the photos posted in this thread has not changed my mind. The Mecca 'burst has worse seam separation. Without in-hand examination by more experts it would be hard to know from the photos alone, IMO.

Will add that ,if I were buying this guitar or the position to,(which I'm not) ,I would have passed as did JB when he saw it. :cool:

There's more than one really nice 'burst for sale at any given time.

Check this one out: Uncle Lou's Classic Guitars - Vintage Guitars, Used Guitars, New Guitars The once celebrity owned super flamed top example. That thing rocks. One can only dream. :slash:


That's the other thing I don't get beside the obvious "why so many anomalies" if you're trying to fool someone. Jim Irsay could have had his guy buy a much nicer one than this example. It's flamey but certainly not without condition issues even if it were legit. I'll never buy a guitar in that price range but if I was I would have not given this one a second look from the pics that were originally available. Much nicer ones can be had if you can pay. just a thought.
 

crompo

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Looks like the impression of the pickup ring overlaps the red that hasn't been exposed to UV at the top left hand corner?

Pick guard must have been off during the fade ?
 

Rich H

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Pick guard must have been off during the fade ?

Of what relevance does the pickguard have to the left hand side of the pickup ring?

The whole area of red around the neck pickup ring looks contrived IMO.

I'd also like to see a close up shot of the pickup ring and the poker chip.
 

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