Legitimacy of Bursts in the marketplace – Real or Fake?

RAG7890

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After reading through this interesting thread, I'm puzzled about the following.

1. How many collectors have their own full time "curator"? Dirk Ziff?

2. With the sizable number of original bursts that have been examined and possibly blueprinted by Gibson to produce the Collector's Choice series, and a number of artist models, would Gibson be the best source of historical information? They should donate the CAD drawings of these instruments to a university. In fact, if I were to own 10 or more bursts, I would be blueprinting each and every one. Just like the dupers have done for generic Les Pauls.

eg_lesp.jpg


3. Dozens of people worked at the Gibson factories in the 1950's, and yet there are scant interviews with any of the worker bees who would know how the chew marks were made, what its purpose was, and why there are tool marks on PAF legs. We do not live in the middle ages. Yet the amount of history being recorded and documented is pathetic. While Seth Lover was alive, why didn't a technical writer sit down with the man and ask him exactly how a PAF was designed and built? For that matter, why didn't someone sit down with the RCA engineers who created their magnificent preamp and power tubes? Do people prefer folklore and urban legend to real history written by the original makers?

I agree with what you are saying but at the time it was just an Electric Guitar. Even Gibson were rumored to be more interested in their Jazz Boxes & saw these as a lower quality new line / passing phase.

We always tend to look back at a lot of things, especially Vintage stuff. At the time no one really takes any notice. The value & interest happens many years later when people who couldn't afford it when they were young start collecting or new people come along & go how cool is this...............Guitars, Cars, Furniture etc.

I can say the same about people aging. Most young people are not interested in the past but when their relatives pass away & they get older, many think I wish I had asked them about.......................

My 2c FWIW.

:cheers:
 

zhivago

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The widow's peak is very clear on this vintage LPC. It is located at the tip of the arrow graphic.

VintageLesPaulControlCavityRouting-AngledFloorSM_zps22959356jpgoriginal_zps63a866e5.jpeg


you guys made me real curious...it's just gone 8am here in London, and before heading to work, I popped open my '56 Custom to have a look, and I am pleased to report that mine has the Widow's Peak too...phew!!! :) :slash:
 

circusboy28

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The thing that's being hinted at but not stated here is that Scott Sheldon is a proven liar and charlatan. Remember his actions and behavior on the forum a few years ago? Conning Steve Hunter, pretending a guitar he had was one thing when he knew damn well it wasn't, all the while trying to buy the real Hunterburst cheap from the guy who had it by pretending it wasn't real. Then posting justifications, more lies, then just plain hiding. Anyone else remember this stuff?

So it seems to me the usual rules do not apply to anything coming from someone like Sheldon. Nothing that comes from that guy should be taken at face value or given the benefit of any doubt. This type of leopard does not change its spots.

I don't know enough about vintage Les Pauls to have an opinion on WHY this guitar is wrong. I do however know enough about people to know that it most likely is a con, because that's what Sheldon does = he lies, cons and tries to deceive. I feel sorry for Joe Ganzler for finding himself in the middle of one Sheldon's con games.
 

John Vasco

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John,

Actually it didn't.

We (who who have been immersed in this passionate guitar endeavor for decades) know about "variances."

To suggest this example is a factory variance would imply:

The guitar was cut on ANOTHER template that no other 50's Les Paul cavity was cut on, or, it was done free-hand, like no other 50's Les Paul Standard.

Even the factory Lefties used the same (or mirror image) template.

Eric,
I take your point, don't get me wrong. I was simply making the point that one should keep one's mind open to all possibilities. You asked the questions, I put forth the logical steps that would test both sides of the argument. Steps that I'm sure you and others with the knowledge of such things would rigorously examine to arrive at a conclusion.

I note above that circusboy has brought a further point to the table...
 

jpftribe

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Seems as if the owner of the burst in question has some new issues to deal with.........
 

Zakmichael

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So this Jim Irsay is the buyer of this "burst"? All sorts of bad karma going around with this guitar..
 

Lousyatit

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the thing that's being hinted at but not stated here is that scott sheldon is a proven liar and charlatan. Remember his actions and behavior on the forum a few years ago? Conning steve hunter, pretending a guitar he had was one thing when he knew damn well it wasn't, all the while trying to buy the real hunterburst cheap from the guy who had it by pretending it wasn't real. Then posting justifications, more lies, then just plain hiding. Anyone else remember this stuff?

So it seems to me the usual rules do not apply to anything coming from someone like sheldon. Nothing that comes from that guy should be taken at face value or given the benefit of any doubt. This type of leopard does not change its spots.

I don't know enough about vintage les pauls to have an opinion on why this guitar is wrong. I do however know enough about people to know that it most likely is a con, because that's what sheldon does = he lies, cons and tries to deceive. I feel sorry for joe ganzler for finding himself in the middle of one sheldon's con games.

Bingo!
 

parts

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As I posted "over there"..
Well..gents..between this and the "other" forum these threads have been fascinating. We have all the drama..intrigue..opinions of very qualified experts. High emotions..and now..
DRUG Bust..FBI...and billionaire guitar player/collector..and the NFL...
Freaking Gorgeous !!

Sounds like a movie plot..hmmmm....

Forget I mentioned that..
 

eric ernest

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Yikes!

05.jpg


Paint over the binding is expected...buffing compound in the crevice of the scraped binding is expected...but that looks like glue/grain filler in the crevice.

This is a perfect example of authentication by the aid of photography...If these photos were really good, I could tell what that is...or is not

03.jpg
 

eric ernest

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Here are some photo comps that are pretty typical (albeit well worn) of a Burst, and what the binding/body joint should look like.

I certainly would love to see more examples from other members here to further expand on the variables.

13244487374_d2c672eece_o.jpg


13244423014_6c0b546645_o.jpg


13244248123_41390d62fd_o.jpg


13244254453_72ca82cecc_o.jpg
 

hoss

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Could 9 0623 be a retop?
That would explain the ugly binding, the strange cavity routings and the marks where the neck meets the body.
It could well be a total fake then, too.
 

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