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Blackie

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Isn't it legal for LEOs to use deception/lies, bullying and trickery during the course of their investigations and interrogations?

.......I think so.........Know your rights and tell the police to **** off.
 

180gROC

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Isn't it legal for LEOs to use deception/lies, bullying and trickery during the course of their investigations and interrogations?

They do it often enough that I always assumed it was legal. I've argued that point while I was being lied to during the investigation. You gotta get up damned early to manipulate me face to face.

I would imagine that being a game warden is one of the more dangerous LEO jobs...everybody they approach is armed and they are generally out in the woods where there are no witnesses. My hats off to Fish & Game officers.

That was a main focus of the show. They usually work alone, in remote areas, and everyone they deal with is armed. They wardens featured in the show were as hardened and trained as any police I've seen anywhere. Gave me a renewed respect.
 

coldsteal2

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reno_911_tv_show_image.jpg
 

180gROC

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A solid word of advice from experience. When in Reno if you find yourself talking to a LEO do NOT mention Reno 911. They really really REALLY hate that... :shock:
 

Blackie

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......I watch all the cop shows.......cause it is highly entertaining to see people all busted and going to jail from the safety of my couch............now that I have mellowed
over the years......and have two felony convictions (non-violent)

.......All ya gotta do is say yes sir no sir to the police and then STFU..........
 

Caleb

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A solid word of advice from experience. When in Reno if you find yourself talking to a LEO do NOT mention Reno 911. They really really REALLY hate that... :shock:

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

How the hell could you not???
 

Leendrix

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THEY NEVER WEAR SEAT BELTS UNLESS IT'S COPS!!! :wtf:
 

Joeydego

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The police CAN ask for your help but cannot force it. Obstruction is a serious stretch. You can simply text the guy something like "dude, the cops are here for you. They want you to come home right away" . That's far more defendable than " better not come home, the cops are here for you". They can get a warrant for your phone and do it themselves if they don't like it (which they'd never get). As a basic precaution, never give a cop license and privilege to search ANYTHING. They aren't your friend. There are circumstances when they can search what they like without your permission. If they're asking, it means they don't have that, yet. That harmless set of brass knuckles they find in your gloveboxgives them the right to arrest you and now go thru your pockets and the rest of your car. Anything else they find is now fair game, and by cooperating you opened the floodgates. Be polite, but be firm on NO.
 

180gROC

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It's funny how knowing your rights arouses suspicion. I cringe every time I hear "Well if you're not guilty what's the problem?" I've talked through the latch on several occasions, and denied law enforcement entry into my home not because I was hiding anything but because there was no conversation we could have in my house that we couldn't have on my porch.

In general I've found that if you search hard enough, you will find what you're looking for, whether it's there or not. That's enough reason to keep LEO on the porch right there as far as I'm concerned. Use my phone? Show me a court order. Am I hiding anything? What kind of question is that? Am I under arrest? Can I be of any further assistance? Thank you have a nice day!

The only time I lose respect for law enforcement is when they forget that we are all just citizens with the same rights across the board. Wearing a badge and carrying a gun doesn't make you better, and certainly not smarter...
 

mudfinger

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In a lot of circles, that would be considered effective police work. The warden asked consent, the guy gave it, the guy then started to waffle, the warden got a little firm (without force, mind you), the guy changed his mind and cooperated, the bad guy went to jail, the roommate is still a free man.

The street isn't a courtroom, and probable cause for arrest isn't the same standard as proof beyond a reasonable doubt for conviction.

That being said, I realize that there are other circles here and in the world who would consider the above situation an example of a fascist police state ruled with an iron fist by a modern day gestapo. So I guess opinions may vary.

I'm with you on this, Caleb. It sounds to me like the warden played that whole thing pretty well. I don't think it would cause any harm to point out that the guy with the phone could just as easily have changed his mind and refused to make the call, and probably should have figured out on his own that making the initial offer to call was the start of his troubles. :laugh2:
 

Joeydego

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It's funny how knowing your rights arouses suspicion. I cringe every time I hear "Well if you're not guilty what's the problem?" I've talked through the latch on several occasions, and denied law enforcement entry into my home not because I was hiding anything but because there was no conversation we could have in my house that we couldn't have on my porch.

In general I've found that if you search hard enough, you will find what you're looking for, whether it's there or not. That's enough reason to keep LEO on the porch right there as far as I'm concerned. Use my phone? Show me a court order. Am I hiding anything? What kind of question is that? Am I under arrest? Can I be of any further assistance? Thank you have a nice day!

The only time I lose respect for law enforcement is when they forget that we are all just citizens with the same rights across the board. Wearing a badge and carrying a gun doesn't make you better, and certainly not smarter...
to be fair, anyone in LE has an impossible job. The public wants order yet expects LE to tiptoe to instill that order. Its not easy and its very easy to cross the 4th amendment line. Most people think they have rights they don't and have rights they didn't know about. To further muck it up, search and seizure law is 99.99999% caselaw, which varies widely on states and reverses itself all the time. What one judge found lawful last year, another found a similiar circumstance illegal later on.
LEOs are suspicious by nature and by conditioning. The same suspicion that keeps them alive suspects you are hiding something as well. Its part of being a human target.
 

180gROC

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It's a tough job, and I respect anyone who does it with no ulterior motives.

That being said I've been asked some pretty damned silly questions...

I rented a room from a guy. He was on probation and under search and seizure over a past domestic violence charge. He was growing pot, one small plant in his private bathroom window.

I came home from work one day to find several officers in the home and my room mate in tears (which was funny in itself because he was a chest puffing redneck)

I was asked if I lived there and I explained that I rented the extra room. I was told that my room was subject to being searched because it was in his house and he is subject to search and seizure. I told the officer that wasn't true because I could produce the rental contract that shows exactly what I sublet (and thankfully that did not include the bathroom where the pot was being grown). To emphasize that point I showed the officer the padlock I had on my door that denied my room mate access.

"Can we search your room anyways?" he asks.

"I haven't given you any probable cause and I am not on search and seizure, so why would you even want to?" says I...

"Well we found his pot plant and he is facing felony cultivation charges"

"You found one plant which is misdemeanor cultivation. It would have taken 4 or more plants to get him felony cultivation"

<Officer perks as if his suspicion has been aroused> "How would you know that???" (the aforementioned silly question)

Me, "It's the law, why would I not know it? Should I not know it? I live under it, and am even reminded by the police occasionally that ignorance of it is not an excuse."

Awkward silence...

"So I can't search your room then?"

"No....."
 

SteveGangi

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its a case of...... "if you done nothing wrong........ you ain't nothing to be scared of!"

I've always had "issues" with that sort of argument because it gives the green light for anything and everything, and demands that you knuckle under to anyone and everyone, no matter what. If I did nothing wrong, that's all there is to it, and "you" have to prove otherwise.

As for this case, I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, you don't want to aid, abet, conspire, or any of that, but then again I don't get the idea of "strong arming" someone who has already agreed to cooperate either. Ask me nice, and I help. You just don't shit on or threaten someone who has already agreed to HELP you.

After all, this isn't a police state YET.
 

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