Kalamazoo vs Nashville plant

[HardCore Troubadour]

ding, ding, ding....and that is why I specified "Heritage 80 line"....not Heritage guitars.

I think you will find a core group of 5-7 members in this forum that can just about nail anything down for this period, especially when we work together....we have figured out many.

the rest still stands....headstock sucks, price is about the same.

I have never felt the need to own one either...but brent did have a TV yellow Custom Special a few weeks back that made me salivate just a little.

 

[Cozmik Cowboy]

Actually I think @HardCore Troubadour was replying to my post where I mentioned Heritage 80s were made in Kalamazoo. We have always checked each other if we happen to post incorrect information..... we like to keep it factual as possible.....we don’t take it personal. We respect each other’s knowledge.

We know very well what Heritage Guitars brand is and where they’re made.

My bad; I seem to have missed yours.

 

[strayedstrater]

Yes well this is the allure of an instrument made in Kalamazoo, regardless of whether they are better or not, its the original place where it all started by Orville himself (correct me if I'm wrong) Its a trivial detail really but it means a lot to some people

The Kalamazoo factory was built a couple of years before Orville died, but he had been largely squeezed out of his company years before that. So it's not exactly "where it all began".

But it was the factory of the Lloyd Loar acoustic archtop f-holes, and the factory of the Ted McCarty Golden Age. So hallowed ground even without much Orville connection.

 

[elephantrider]

all this detail makes me curious if my '75 deluxe was nash or kal. according to who I bought it from, it's a nash. doesn't matter to me, as it's my birth year guitar, but always curious...

 

[HardCore Troubadour]

everything original????

we can probably narrow it down, if so.

I own a 1975 Deluxe that I am sure was made there, the only reason I have to call it a 75 is the pot dates...it has all 74 features.

Remember there was a big change going on in 75, and while that make it a PITA to remember etc. etc. it does tend to lay out a fairly clear timeline, if you pay attention.

 

[Reflect_ion]

Well it got sold but that doesn't matter.

What I just noticed is that this one doesn't have the shallow cutaway/sharp horn. It's also missing the "thick" binding in the cutaway. I'm not seeing ghosts here, right?
I have never seen a pre '82 custom actually without the shallow cutaway/sharp horn.

Is this also a specific Kalamazoo thing that they held on to the original shape? Do only the Nashville ones have the shallow cutaway/sharp horn?

1981 Gibson Les Paul Custom Silverburst - Kalamazoo Made - All the Special 80s Parts | The Trogly's Guitar Show - YouTube | Reverb

The Case...This instrument comes in an early-90s Gibson USA hardshell case with brown exterior and pink interior with case shroud. The case is in used condition, but still functions as it should. All latches are present and functioning, the handle is still attached and the combo lock is set to 00...

reverb.com

 

[mudface]

Well it got sold but that doesn't matter.

What I just noticed is that this one doesn't have the shallow cutaway/sharp horn. It's also missing the "thick" binding in the cutaway. I'm not seeing ghosts here, right?
I have never seen a pre '82 custom actually without the shallow cutaway/sharp horn.

Is this also a specific Kalamazoo thing that they held on to the original shape? Do only the Nashville ones have the shallow cutaway/sharp horn?

1981 Gibson Les Paul Custom Silverburst - Kalamazoo Made - All the Special 80s Parts | The Trogly's Guitar Show - YouTube | Reverb

The Case...This instrument comes in an early-90s Gibson USA hardshell case with brown exterior and pink interior with case shroud. The case is in used condition, but still functions as it should. All latches are present and functioning, the handle is still attached and the combo lock is set to 00...

reverb.com

Good catch..... the wide binding started at the Kalamazoo plant..... just for an example this is Jimmy Page’s 1970 Deluxe.... years before the Nashville plant.

As for the silverburst in question?....

I’m not sure if that is correct for 1981...

.....the serial number does look correct for an ‘81.

Unless there’s some kind of monkey business going on.... like a repaired headstock.... without closer inspection it’s hard to tell. It does have a solid black (not bursted) back of headstock.

And there is no tell-tale signs of a three piece maple neck... as glue lines are often visible through the finish... but neither are the wings.

 

[Reflect_ion]

The solid black back of headstock would be typical for all the Kalamazoo made ones I understand, so could be that that isn't an issue?
Well spotted on the "missing" glue lines for the 3 pice maple neck!

 

[mudface]

The solid black back of headstock would be typical for all the Kalamazoo made ones I understand, so could be that that isn't an issue?
Well spotted on the "missing" glue lines for the 3 pice maple neck!

This is my 1977 Custom and the glue lines are definitely visible on mine.

So even under this lighting the lines should be visible....

.....or it’s a one piece neck.... it’s not out of the realm of possibility with Norlin era wonkiness.

Maybe even a hog neck.....?

 

[HardCore Troubadour]

not out of the realm, especially if it was a KM piece....but I would doubt it was hog.

a look under the TRC will tell....surely he did a video to give that warm, fuzzy, take an extra $4500 of my money, "experience"???

It is funny how lines show sometimes more than others....I would not stress about the glue lines not showing.

Stress about him asking 8K for a $3000-3500 guitar....and the stupid ass that will pay for it.

 

[ARandall]

Is this also a specific Kalamazoo thing that they held on to the original shape? Do only the Nashville ones have the shallow cutaway/sharp horn?

Well, I have a Kalamazoo made Deluxe from 1980, and it has the more original shape horn too.
I know @HardCore Troubadour did a tracing of the horn of his guitar from the same era when I was looking for the late 70's horn for my silverburst build - and it matched my Kalamazoo Deluxe, not the more open flatter cutaway typical of the period.

 

[manchild]

Ive owned several 70s kalamzoo and nashville LP standards and customs and have played many more. By late 70s the variance in neck/horn shape or build quality is same as with any guitar. Soundwise those t-tops are extremely consistent so sound the same.
I sold all but a ‘79 nashville custom because had a decently full neck, weighs a mere 9.5lbs, and sounds/plays as good as any...also has trad horn shape.
BTW, the bodies of that period are actually slightly shorter than traditional LP dimensions.

 

[Heritagefan]

yes those are KM characteristics.....the difference between the plants is, for the most part, all hype...especially after 1975.

It is just selling hype.

hell, it was the old timers that went to Nashville and got that plant up and running.

He's a dumbass and has this priced 100% higher than what it is worth on it's BEST day....and more than 100% on all other days.

He will probably sell it, too.......PT Barnum and all that.

Jim Deurloo, who was plant superintendent at Gibson was actually the old timer who helped open the Nashville plant. Then he and 3 others stayed behind and started Heritage Guitar in 1985. They continue to build some of the finest guitars in the world for the last 35 years, in that same 103 year old building.

 

[jhogler]

I think I remember reading that initially there were teething problems with the Nashville plant, and the first few months (not sure on exact time) was a bit patchy with regard to quality.
Here is a thread on the LPF, the last post has an interesting (but unsupported) assertion on the early days at Nashville:

The Les Paul Forum

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www.lespaulforum.com

If its 'taboo' to link to that forum, here is the body of the post:
Nashville Tn. Plant opened in June 1975 building acoustics only , the first Les Paul model built in Nashville in big numbers was the Les Paul Pro Deluxe in mid 1976 as the plant failed with acoustics. The Les Paul Custom, Standard and Deluxe were never built till the early part of 1977 in Nashville.The Nashville bridge and the maple neck was started in the Kalamazoo plant in mid 1975.

That's interesting. I'd never heard that about how LP production was phased in at Nashville.I've always figured that I'd never be able to really unravel the beginnings of my 1976 LP Standard, but if this is true, then it seems more likely that it was built in Kalamazoo than in Nashville. I bought this guitar new, all those years ago.

Other than not knowing exactly where it was made, the other irritating things about '76 Standards are 1) they're supposedly the first year Gibson offered Standards as part of their line since 1960, and 2) supposedly (according to Larry Meiners's book on shipment totals) only 24 were made.

Of course, there are lots of special order Standards from between 1960 and 1976, and for some reason there seem to be a million 1976 Standards floating out there... right?

 

[mudface]

That's interesting. I'd never heard that about how LP production was phased in at Nashville.I've always figured that I'd never be able to really unravel the beginnings of my 1976 LP Standard, but if this is true, then it seems more likely that it was built in Kalamazoo than in Nashville. I bought this guitar new, all those years ago.

Other than not knowing exactly where it was made, the other irritating things about '76 Standards are 1) they're supposedly the first year Gibson offered Standards as part of their line since 1960, and 2) supposedly (according to Larry Meiners's book on shipment totals) only 24 were made.

Of course, there are lots of special order Standards from between 1960 and 1976, and for some reason there seem to be a million 1976 Standards floating out there... right?

Most Standards of this period were tobacco burst like yours...... unfortunately we have to minus 2 points for feet in the pic

Lucky you had socks on....that would have been an additional 5 points for bare feet.

 

[jhogler]

Most Standards of this period were tobacco burst like yours...... unfortunately we have to minus 2 points for feet in the pic

View attachment 500300

Lucky you had socks on....that would have been an additional 5 points for bare feet.

At least I wasn't wearing my Birkenstocks...

 

[gitapik]

One of my techs had a serious problem with Gibson's move to Nashville; specifically because of the climate change and how it effected the woods/frets of the guitars when they were shipped North. I used to laugh at him, bitching about the constant fret work and setups that he did on Gibsons that were basically brand new. "Ok...you're getting lots of work and it sucks?".

I know there are other factors at play, here...and fact is that there has always been the, "Oh man...you got a good one!" factor with mass produced guitars. But it was interesting to hear my tech's thoughts on the move.

 

[HardCore Troubadour]

don't put any stock into those numbers...they are inaccurate at best....yes, they made a LOT in 76.

 

[mudface]

That's interesting. I'd never heard that about how LP production was phased in at Nashville.I've always figured that I'd never be able to really unravel the beginnings of my 1976 LP Standard, but if this is true, then it seems more likely that it was built in Kalamazoo than in Nashville. I bought this guitar new, all those years ago.

Other than not knowing exactly where it was made, the other irritating things about '76 Standards are 1) they're supposedly the first year Gibson offered Standards as part of their line since 1960, and 2) supposedly (according to Larry Meiners's book on shipment totals) only 24 were made.

Of course, there are lots of special order Standards from between 1960 and 1976, and for some reason there seem to be a million 1976 Standards floating out there... right?

don't put any stock into those numbers...they are inaccurate at best....yes, they made a LOT in 76.

I have to agree,....the shipping logs are a joke.

Prior to the official release of the "Standard" they're are many Deluxes that were shipped back to the factory by dealers and rerouted into Standards that have been undocumented,.... and these mixed with originally humbucker routed "Standards" that were special ordered. So by the "official" release of the Standard you can bet production was ramped up.

 

[Ithamar1]

So, slightly off topic but curious as I am.. how does Memphis fit in now, qualitywise?
Any opinions on that?

Love silverburst btw