K&M Guardian guitar stand - nitro help!

mattcowie

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Hi
I bought the K&M 17515 GUARDIAN TRANSLUZENT 5 guitar stand recently. It is designed to be safe for nitro finishes. According to the manufacturer it has “translucent support elements, which excludes potential discolouration of valuable guitars with nitrocellulose paints”. Slightly dodgy translation from German, but you get the gist.
Five guitar stand »Guardian 5«-17515-000-00
K&M 17515 GUARDIAN TRANSLUZENT - Thomann UK Cyberstore



I have had my Gibson Les Pauls (and Epis) on it for a few days and where the guitars touch the stand the finish is 'sweating' and getting cloudy. The same goes for my non-nitro guitars, but it is not as bad. The clouding does wipe off and polish out, but I'm afraid if I leave it for long it will permanently damage the guitars.

Has anyone else had a similar problem with this stand? Will translucent supports actually stop damage to nitro finishes?

I’m dubious. I know I can wrap T-shirt material around the stand, but I bought this stand specifically so I wouldn’t have to do that.
 

HOT-BRIT

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after having one stand melt the lacquer on a SG, I now always place some tshirt material at the contact points
 

mattcowie

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after having one stand melt the lacquer on a SG, I now always place some tshirt material at the contact points
Yeah, but I don't really want to have to do that for a stand designed and marketed as nitro safe. But if it stops my guitars melting...
 

tdarian

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I use only Hercules stands. Never had any issues.
I've been using a Hercules stand at home and likewise have had no issues with a Historic R7, either at the contact point on the headshtock where the guitar hangs or the back edges of the body where it rests on the bottom. No issues with a Hercules either with a PRS Modern Eagle 1, which has a nitro formulation on the body that has proven "reactive" on some that were made.

Wish I could help with the K&M!
 

mattcowie

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I emailed K&M and got a swift reply and they are looking into it. They said:

we understand your concern very well, but don`t be afraid for long term using.
The material we used for the Guardian is the best possible in this case. It is also approved by the food & drug administration.
I don't think my guitars are either food or drugs!

Furthermore the parts are produced without colour, so there will not be a coloured reaction.
It's nothing to do with the colour of the parts, but the material it's made from.

I've sent them pics and they are investigating with their supplier. I feel a product recall coming on...
 

MortalSin

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Hey, i got the same problem on two Guitars.
what should we do ?
 

Hoser

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I had a stand slightly mark the finish on the back of my Les Paul Junior. So I spent about 4 hours over the holidays reading 75 threads on this issue both here and on a ton of other forms/websites. (Nitro finish being damaged by stands).

I also read a ton of product reviews.

I found people complaining about every stand made (to be fair, there were also people that didn't have problems with this stand or that one), both in forums and in product reviews (like this Herc stand - you can see a guy complaining about the foam damaging his nitro finish). I concluded that there was no brand that you could count on not to damage the finish.

So assuming you just don't want to buy a stand and take a risk, there were only two solutions at the end of the day:

1) wrap the contact points in something cotton, like a t-shirt or a rag. there's some place that actually sells little socks made of the same material as the inside of a case that you can slip over some guitar stands, but I can't find the URL right now, and it would only work on certain stands.

2) leave your guitar in the case when you are not using it. (This is what the Gibson website says in pretty clear terms.) A lot of people had decided to use stands when gigging and case the rest of the time.

I only have 2 guitars I play regularly, and it's just me goofing around at home by myself or with my son, so I've gone the case route. I just leave them in the corner of my den on the floor beside my amp, and it's no harder picking them up out of a case than it is picking them off a rack. In fact, I kinda like the look.
 

MortalSin

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yes but they write : translucent support elements, which excludes potential discolouration of valuable guitars with nitrocellulose paints”

and i have two damaged guitars + pay 110 Euros. i think this is not ok.
 

Big Daddy B

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Are you looking for alternative? I use Quiklok rack stands. Most of them come with a felt kit to cover the body and neck supports for vintage paint. The only downside is they only send one bay kit per stand regardless of if you buy a 3,5, or 7 unit.


 

riffhard

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I have two of the K&M stands. The first one since 2012 or 13. No problem.
 

Meepers

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It sounds like your stand is not nitro safe. You can either cover it in felt, cloth or return it. I have melted the nitro on a Martin myself once. It is a terrible feeling when you see melted nitro on your guitar. Try Hercules stands as stated above. I got my first one a few months ago after accidentally breaking the best folding A frame stand ever. I have a 5 guitar rack, that is "nitro safe" but it not. It didn't melt any nitro, but discolored a Strat. But I play the hell out of that guitar and beat it up real good, so I wasn't concerned. But I learned never put a nitro guitar I really like on it.
 

Cjsinla

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yes but they write : translucent support elements, which excludes potential discolouration of valuable guitars with nitrocellulose paints”

and i have two damaged guitars + pay 110 Euros. i think this is not ok.
I believe that the issue of discoloring is mainly with white guitars. However, in my opinion, not affecting the color is different than saying it doesn't affect nitro at all.

To the OP, If I had a stand that was making my guitar finish sweat and look cloudy, I would stop using it.
 

Lefty Adams

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Sorry but Hercules are the best imo, I have three and never had any issues of any kind. Just saying ...
 

edselman

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I only trust Hercules stands. I have had my guitars hanging on Hercules wall hangers for up to three years and on Hercules stands. Not one single problem. They are the only stands and hangers I trust. I have seen the sweating and cloudiness you speak of with other stands, and my experience is that wrapping tee shirt material around the supports doesn't work. The gas being released from the stand goes right through the material. BUY HERCULES AND NOTHING ELSE. And I don't work for them.
 

MortalSin

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K&M 17513 Guardian Translucent, triple guitar stand - for electric/acoustic/bass guitars, foldable, recommended for guitars thomann with nitro lacquer (causes no discoloration when in permanent use/contact with the instrument). Dimensions: 626 x 335 x 700mm . Weight: 3.6kg. Colour: Black


I have this one.I think it is for nitro lacquer. im dissapointed.
 

Frogfur

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Put something between the neck and the stand contact. Don't want to do that?..oh key dough key.
 

dspelman

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There's a third culprit (beyond material and weather issues): I've seen a number of guitars with "dents" on either side of the neck of guitar -- these were hung from stainless steel (fairly large diameter tubing) commercial hangers. Apparently nitrocellulose is also susceptible to *pressure*.

Before the anecdotal folks jump in with "My guitar has been just fine!" I should note that this isn't all nitro-finished guitars, but it does happen ONLY with nitro finished guitars. Not just new ones, either. I have no idea what causes it, and no interest in finding out, but my nitro-finished guitars stay in their cases.

I'll be really happy when guitar players STOP thinking there's something special about that crap finish so that we can get modern finishes on guitars we care about. Maybe Gibson can start with their High Performance series and move from there.
 




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