Joey Kramer sues Aerosmith

Marshall & Moonshine

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Beats me. :dunno:

I haven't actually listened to a full album of theirs since Rocks-- and never gave a crap what band was together or broke up (or whatever) at any point since the dissolution of The Beatles.

I just play the guitar. But I don't "follow" anybody-- don't actually care what group is active or inactive.



Maybe. But then I did hear an interview with Tyler one time, and he's actually a very intelligent guy-- he's definitely capable of writing that statement himself without assistance. It was pretty simple and straightforward.

Meanwhile, even if the statement was simply deflection or camouflage for some argument taking place among the band members, at least they weren't stupid enough to bitch about one another in public, like lowlife rappers with their feuds or GnR being mad at Bob Guccione and recording "Get in the Ring"... of some of those stupid songs Lennon and McCartney released to bitch about one another...

...or whatever.

Surprisingly, Aerosmith seems to have had too much class to act like that.

*****

Frankly, I think that the bottom line is simply that Kramer can't cut it right now, and maybe never again.

My main reason for suspecting this is because I continue to believe that from the standpoint of business and sheer fan appeal, it would have been better for all 5 original members to perform together at such a high profile event.

I know that they can-- and will-- put asses in ticketed seats even as 4/5ths of the original band.

This is, after all, the era of free agents-- and it's not just in sports. Hell, right now there's a band out there gigging as Molly Hatchet, and even though they can bring it to the stage as good as the original band, there isn't a single member of the group who is an original member.

AND IT DOESN'T MATTER TO THOSE WHO ATTEND THEIR SHOWS... same as it doesn't matter who is on what football team any more. Those days are OVER.

So: these bands? Hey, whatever.

*****

GnR boils down to what? Axl Rose and who?

Who Cares, that's who. The fans gotta have their show-- but let's face it, most of the rockers are geriatric types anyway.

If you were really big in the Seventies, then you're in your seventies now. :thumb:

But the fans don't care. They just GOTTA SEE THAT SHOW and they probably care more about the band name than who is actually in the band itself. Tyler and Perry-- but especially Tyler-- are Aerosmith... the other three guys, not so much.

And that's how it is in the real world-- as opposed to MLP, where people fixate on such details.

I've said a million times: for all the arguments on this site about this guitar or that amp or this or that player, in reality the average music fan doesn't know one guitar from the next, knows even less about amps... and when it comes to bands they only know who the front is, with maybe the lead guitar guy having a name.

But it's not like before with the guitar guys, even... because now they are interchangeable. People would see Buckethead or that other guy playing instead of Slash, so long as Axl Rose was up there...

So usually, all that matters these days is the front person... the singer. THAT is who the big star is... with everybody else simply being supporting musicians unless they can also sing.



I expected that to be deflection for sure. It was a nicer thing to say than, "Joey can't cut it any more, so we had to let him go."



It's probably closest to the truth.

What *may* actually be even closer is this: he can't play any more and perhaps never will be good enough again.

But who wants to say that... especially if they're telling the truth as they say that they feel fraternal affection for him and don't want him hurt any more than he's already hurtin'.

I think that they did the best they could to let JK save face in light of the full circumstances...and that his reaction was to try and fight off the inevitable sacking.

The man is worth about 100 million dollars. But at this point, it ain't about money... it's all about some showman refusing to believe that he can't cut it any more.

It's emotional. And so are the reactions of so many others on this site.

But for Tyler and the other three guys still in Aerosmith, it's business.

I do think they did their best to pad things for him. I think he simply refused to accept the gesture.

And though the thought of it makes me sad... I understand why he'd act like that.

You take away a man's identity and he's left adrift... money might not even matter, especially if he's been rich for decades.

It's the end of an era for him... and some guys don't age gracefully or willingly.

Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?

--R
Come at me, Breaux!!

Haha! Just thought that would be fun to type, and you know what??

It's everything I hoped it would be.

That would make a great thread....
People just post their names and you blast away. :)

Exhausting for you, fun for me.
(It gives me an idea....)

I can totally see Tyler (and the rest) being supremely intelligent. They need to come off as RocknRoll rebelz, but they can't be genuine idiots at the same time. It's a crafted image, like any successful artist I can think of. I bet they could write that statement and a million times better. It just had that "Press Release" feel to it, ya know?
I'm with you, though.
I truly feel they did their best to soften the inevitable blow of his retirement. I play a few instruments and I can guarantee that, should I live a long life, drums will be the earliest to go.

Aerosmith will always be the Toxic Twins, to the masses.
And the masses spend the money.
I get it.
It just bums me out a little.
I wish Joey hadn't sued. I wish he'd just said "My shoulder's fucked up and won't be ready for Grammys".
He had a very graceful out available. I wish he'd taken it.
 

HardCore Troubadour

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Problem here is the Joey could not play with a click track (probably never could....lot’s of drummers can’t) and since this will be a “canned” gig, the drummer has to be able to stay with the track for it all to shake out on TV etc. etc.

There will be no “risk taking” with having a band ACTUALLY PLAY for this.....

Doesn’t make what they are doing right, but it does make it “make sense”.
 

Roberteaux

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I can totally see Tyler (and the rest) being supremely intelligent.
I know that despite his various foibles and failings, Tyler is most definitely a very sharp guy

He was interviewed on a local FM station one time when Aerosmith was playing a show in Orlando, and he came off as very polite and intelligent-- even when the interviewer insisted on sounding like a total dork and asked the dumbest questions ever.

I recall that at one point Tyler sounded clearly exasperated, though... it was because the person interviewing him wanted him to analyze the lyrics to "Love in an Elevator", as if there was some great intellectual or philosophical basis behind those lyrics, making the song itself hard to decipher...

...or as if the lyrics were really abstract, like The Beatles "I Am the Walrus" or Dylan's "Stuck Inside of Mobile with the Memphis Blues Again"...

Tyler was patient as he explained the self-evident nature of the lyrics, but I could tell that he was a bit annoyed to find somebody trying to goad him into the sort of insipid locker room banter that might have ensued has Tyler been in the mood to ramble moronically about gash.

And I was irked, because I thought that if the interviewer had chosen to discuss anything else with Tyler, it might have been very interesting.

***************

I haven't been that annoyed with an interviewer since Tom Snyder was talking with Charles Manson and cut Manson off with some self-serving expression of piety, even as Manson was about to start talking about the death of Christopher Haught.

Charlie was about to spill some beans about Christopher Haught-- a subject that he ultimately only barely touched upon once in his life-- but no: Snyder had to tell the world how he disapproves of serial killing... as if this made him unique somehow... and Manson's no-snitching instinct kicked in and he never did say what he was about to say.

Some interviewers need to remind themselves that they are not the focus of the interview. I think Geraldo Rivera was probably the very worst of all time, but he's not the only such person I can think of who needed to STFU and let his subject do most of the talking.


They need to come off as RocknRoll rebelz, but they can't be genuine idiots at the same time. It's a crafted image, like any successful artist I can think of. I bet they could write that statement and a million times better.

It just had that "Press Release" feel to it, ya know?
Yes, it did... but then, it *was* a press release.

Still and all: I had a strong feeling that the fraternal note it struck might actually have been sincere.

I truly feel they did their best to soften the inevitable blow of his retirement. I play a few instruments and I can guarantee that, should I live a long life, drums will be the earliest to go.
I think they tried to take it easy on him, too-- and I noted their emphasis on how they wanted him to show up at the Grammys anyway, to be publicly represented and celebrated as part of Aerosmith...

This was certainly a lot better than how some of the other musical celebrities have treated former band members at similar events.

They didn't want to shut him out, and weren't about to pretend that he didn't exist or contribute to the band's work... and they wanted a show of solidarity with him, even if he couldn't play.

And I would call that Pretty Damned Decent, even if others think he's being shafted here.

Aerosmith will always be the Toxic Twins, to the masses.
And the masses spend the money.
I get it.
It just bums me out a little.
Bums me out a lot, too...

Joey spent his entire adult life doing one thing: being the drummer for Aerosmith. Being unable to carry on at this point-- and maybe forever after-- has *got* to really, really hurt. As I said in my earlier post, he's not just out of a job... he's out of an identity, and all the money in the world won't change that.

You know, going back to what Tyler was saying about the average man and his obsession with money and pussy: once you get past that-- or once you've got all that-- and now it's about who you are instead of what twat you've got your nose buried in and how much bank you've got going... well, if you lose that identity, depending on your psychological makeup it might just be The End.

All that temporal, external shit means NOTHING if you've got all that made. After that, it's who and what you are that matters.

So far I've had three friends who committed suicide because they could no longer be who and what they once were.

I might have killed myself a dozen times already, except that I was always very careful to constantly remind myself of my true, guiding light:

Death is Certain, Life is Not

And that kept me from doing the Dutch because... well, because it was all a big fuckin' crap shoot all along anyway and so why check out? Who knows what will happen next? Fortune is a fickle, drunken whore... something might happen that would make all the rest of the pain and aggravation of life seem as though it was worth it.

Or maybe not. But we'll never know the answer to that if we just pull the plug.

And so I am still here, despite my ten thousand failures along the way.

Fuck It.

*****

But Joey isn't me, and even if he was, I'd say that the pain he is feeling at this moment has simply*got* to be overwhelming...

I do feel sorry for the guy. I recall reading something written by Jack London once, about a sled dog that was cut out of the traces for being unable to pull any longer... and how the dog just kind of fell behind the sled after that and finally just laid down to die.

I hope that Joey does what I would do, which is to carry on anyway... despite everything.

Again I say: Fuck It. :thumb:

Funny: I read the other day that there came a point in the life of Leo Tolstoy where he became depressed enough that he came within a whisker of death by his own hand... with the reason being that he had finally written himself completely out.

He was wealthy, and he was-- and still is-- celebrated as one of the best writers of all time, and blah-blah... but you know: because he couldn't find anything new to write about, he almost pulled the plug. He felt as if he no longer had any purpose in life.

But you know what he did then? He shrugged and said, "Fuck It" and he went on living to the ripe old age of 82.

I wish Joey hadn't sued. I wish he'd just said "My shoulder's fucked up and won't be ready for Grammys".
He had a very graceful out available. I wish he'd taken it.
You've just spoken for me as well. :thumb:

Now all that's left to hope is that he shows at the Grammys anyway, and that he lets his band mates show the solidarity with him that I believe they wished to demonstrate all along anyway.

But somehow, I think he'll fail to show, and will begin to grouse and come up with a bunch of tell-all shit to retaliate against them, since the court told him his case was a no-go.

As if we don't already know what a bunch of dawgs all those guys were all along anyway. :rolleyes:

--R
 

SteveGangi

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So. Will it be a real show, or just old geezers doing a lip sync?
 

Marshall & Moonshine

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I know that despite his various foibles and failings, Tyler is most definitely a very sharp guy

He was interviewed on a local FM station one time when Aerosmith was playing a show in Orlando, and he came off as very polite and intelligent-- even when the interviewer insisted on sounding like a total dork and asked the dumbest questions ever.

I recall that at one point Tyler sounded clearly exasperated, though... it was because the person interviewing him wanted him to analyze the lyrics to "Love in an Elevator", as if there was some great intellectual or philosophical basis behind those lyrics, making the song itself hard to decipher...

...or as if the lyrics were really abstract, like The Beatles "I Am the Walrus" or Dylan's "Stuck Inside of Mobile with the Memphis Blues Again"...

Tyler was patient as he explained the self-evident nature of the lyrics, but I could tell that he was a bit annoyed to find somebody trying to goad him into the sort of insipid locker room banter that might have ensued has Tyler been in the mood to ramble moronically about gash.

And I was irked, because I thought that if the interviewer had chosen to discuss anything else with Tyler, it might have been very interesting.

***************

I haven't been that annoyed with an interviewer since Tom Snyder was talking with Charles Manson and cut Manson off with some self-serving expression of piety, even as Manson was about to start talking about the death of Christopher Haught.

Charlie was about to spill some beans about Christopher Haught-- a subject that he ultimately only barely touched upon once in his life-- but no: Snyder had to tell the world how he disapproves of serial killing... as if this made him unique somehow... and Manson's no-snitching instinct kicked in and he never did say what he was about to say.

Some interviewers need to remind themselves that they are not the focus of the interview. I think Geraldo Rivera was probably the very worst of all time, but he's not the only such person I can think of who needed to STFU and let his subject do most of the talking.




Yes, it did... but then, it *was* a press release.

Still and all: I had a strong feeling that the fraternal note it struck might actually have been sincere.



I think they tried to take it easy on him, too-- and I noted their emphasis on how they wanted him to show up at the Grammys anyway, to be publicly represented and celebrated as part of Aerosmith...

This was certainly a lot better than how some of the other musical celebrities have treated former band members at similar events.

They didn't want to shut him out, and weren't about to pretend that he didn't exist or contribute to the band's work... and they wanted a show of solidarity with him, even if he couldn't play.

And I would call that Pretty Damned Decent, even if others think he's being shafted here.



Bums me out a lot, too...

Joey spent his entire adult life doing one thing: being the drummer for Aerosmith. Being unable to carry on at this point-- and maybe forever after-- has *got* to really, really hurt. As I said in my earlier post, he's not just out of a job... he's out of an identity, and all the money in the world won't change that.

You know, going back to what Tyler was saying about the average man and his obsession with money and pussy: once you get past that-- or once you've got all that-- and now it's about who you are instead of what twat you've got your nose buried in and how much bank you've got going... well, if you lose that identity, depending on your psychological makeup it might just be The End.

All that temporal, external shit means NOTHING if you've got all that made. After that, it's who and what you are that matters.

So far I've had three friends who committed suicide because they could no longer be who and what they once were.

I might have killed myself a dozen times already, except that I was always very careful to constantly remind myself of my true, guiding light:

Death is Certain, Life is Not

And that kept me from doing the Dutch because... well, because it was all a big fuckin' crap shoot all along anyway and so why check out? Who knows what will happen next? Fortune is a fickle, drunken whore... something might happen that would make all the rest of the pain and aggravation of life seem as though it was worth it.

Or maybe not. But we'll never know the answer to that if we just pull the plug.

And so I am still here, despite my ten thousand failures along the way.

Fuck It.

*****

But Joey isn't me, and even if he was, I'd say that the pain he is feeling at this moment has simply*got* to be overwhelming...

I do feel sorry for the guy. I recall reading something written by Jack London once, about a sled dog that was cut out of the traces for being unable to pull any longer... and how the dog just kind of fell behind the sled after that and finally just laid down to die.

I hope that Joey does what I would do, which is to carry on anyway... despite everything.

Again I say: Fuck It. :thumb:

Funny: I read the other day that there came a point in the life of Leo Tolstoy where he became depressed enough that he came within a whisker of death by his own hand... with the reason being that he had finally written himself completely out.

He was wealthy, and he was-- and still is-- celebrated as one of the best writers of all time, and blah-blah... but you know: because he couldn't find anything new to write about, he almost pulled the plug. He felt as if he no longer had any purpose in life.

But you know what he did then? He shrugged and said, "Fuck It" and he went on living to the ripe old age of 82.



You've just spoken for me as well. :thumb:

Now all that's left to hope is that he shows at the Grammys anyway, and that he lets his band mates show the solidarity with him that I believe they wished to demonstrate all along anyway.

But somehow, I think he'll fail to show, and will begin to grouse and come up with a bunch of tell-all shit to retaliate against them, since the court told him his case was a no-go.

As if we don't already know what a bunch of dawgs all those guys were all along anyway. :rolleyes:

--R
It seems that, rich or poor, retired people need something to do. Anyone who starts collecting and just sits in a chair watching TV all day is gonna be unhappy, really fast. I bet he could produce or something with all his experience.
I hope he finds something.

Nobody can do what they do forever.
Time is still undefeated.
 

cjpeck

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And I was irked, because I thought that if the interviewer had chosen to discuss anything else with Tyler, it might have been very interesting.

I picked this bit 'cause it reminded me of a writer's lecture/interview I went to a number of years ago here in Seattle. The author was Terry Pratchett, he was out pimping his then new release "Thud". It was billed as an hour and a half interview/author talk total. So I went, bought the book and took my seat and Terry gave a great 40 minute or so talk about life the universe and everything. Then the 'interviewer' came out and 'asked questions'. The same questions Pratchett had most likely been asked at nearly every single interview for the past 20 years. blah blah blah. He gave his stock answers for the next half hour then rambled on a bit about growing old, dying, and doing what you really wanted to instead of what everyone wanted to. This was before he had gone public with how bad his PCA/Alzheimer's really was.
Anyways, he thanked the interviewer, stood up and told everyone who had bought one of his new books to look at page 338 (or something) and if you had a red ticket, please stay in the room after the show and he'd sign those books. He claimed that signing a ton of stuff beat his hands up badly so this was how he did it so he didn't feel like he was a total cheat.
I was one of the lucky ones that had a ticket and I stuck around to get it signed.
Turns out he didn't want to sign books, he had pre-signed book plates "ex libris Terry Pratchett". He gave everyone with a ticket their money back, saying he was giving the book to everyone from his own library and if he took money for it, it wouldn't be a gift. Then he pulled out a bottle of scotch and sat down and chatted with everyone for another hour and a half. He said he was sick of the same old interview questions and had more fun talking to a few people at a time. I didn't get home until midnight.
 

jb_abides

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Having just watched the segment (on YT, Living On the Edge => Walk This Way)... not sure why all the hubbub. Just another lame TV performance. No barns were burned.

LOTE was pretty basic beat, straight-forward, minimal fills. All sorts of stage room, they coulda had 2 drum sets, one for Joey, one for the real timekeeper. They actually had shots of the substitute more than I expected. Wonder if that was a subtle FU? Tyler wasn't in great voice so there's a bit of pot calling kettle...

WTW with Run-DMC was mostly beatbox driven anyway, so who gives a F*ck about great drumming. Tyler mostly talk-sang, and not in the usually juicy-cool and soulful scat manner. He can still do it, but not tonight. More antics than performance from all of them. Love Run-DMC, but Darryl McDaniels' spasmodic dysphonia negated the performance as much as Joey's bum arm would've, I'd wager... Pure speculation: something's up with JK & the boys other than music.

Random bits:
- Run-DMC busts down the wall. Was this meant to really surprise folks? Oh my.... let me feign.
- F-bombs abound. Shout out to Lizzo. I don't get all the love for Lizzo.
- Kobe jersey waived, RIP
- Jam Master Jay belt buckle. Much RESPECT.
- Good to see a nice throwback to good ol' 80s racial harmony, although the audience seemed still for the most part.
- Joe actually ruled the day with his performance on the HK geet!

P.S. WTF's going on with Keith Urban? Is he following in the steps of Bruce/Caitlyn? or just overdoing the plastic surgery on couple's outings with Nicole?
 
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jb_abides

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Watched the MusiCares Aerosmith jams. Better drummer, more rocking, better performance. A step-up but not vital. Then again, with all the guests onstage, it still didn't warrant the fuss over Joey. Publicity stunt, perhaps?

And, FFS. Someone please keep Johnny Depp away from these jams. Ugh.
 

Mark V Guitars

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As Robert Plant did once in an interview when Aerosmith came up briefly, *shrugged, grinned and tilted his head.*
 




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