Jimmy Page #1 bridge pickup question

Deus Vult

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I've found that a PAF clone in a Les Paul into a Marshall gets me close enough.
 

darthphineas

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It's amazing how vague that is. There is no guarantee that one sentence has anything to do with the next.

The only way that blurb could relate to Page in anyway without being a marketing fabrication is if Seymour modified the pickups in #1 prior to 1972. If that was the case I imagine it would be pretty major news in the Pagetone world.

Otherwise he could basically be saying "These pickups are replicas of pickups I made in the 80s based on modifications I made to other people's pickups in the late 60s."

far from the first time a guy over there that writes copy has pushed the boundaries.... or gone beyond. considering at least one of the things in print about that model, it could be considered a surprise that Gibson hasn't sent a cease & desist.
 

guitarcase

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S Duncan was in London at the time of the greats and rewound pickups for some of them. Waaay later, page used a s duncan pickup. London, Page, 70s S Duncan WHL. The blurb on WHL tries to make all these connect. Why? Well everybody loves to be page by buying a pickup, so a nice cash cow with no royalties. Page used a s Duncan after Zep, so that's why it doesn't specifically say WHL are the same as pages original, it's just ambiguous and leads you to believe this. In my lp the WHL sound great, but not trebly like pages early sound, more middy, but that's why I like them. Another thought. Maybe the seymour Duncan was also in Pages guitar when a UK winder had it on his bench. So is the Riff Raff similar the Seymour Duncan pickup, or his original Paff, and why is Tims riff Raff the closest, and not his black dogs, which were supposed to be the Zep pickup ? I would also think I could have pages exact original equipment and sound nothing like him. .
 

jbash

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Heh. Whole Lotta Bulls**t ;)


Duncan also pussyfoots around the whole 78 model, and on the forums several years ago really upped the BS level about the JB model and it meaning " jazz/blues".

Not to discredit the sound of the pickups...duncans are good stuff, but the marketing team must think we are a bunch of morons.
 

DADGAD

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Well I don't think there is intentional misinformation. It's just meant to be a vague connection. Kind of a 7 degrees of Jimmy Page. Duncan and MJ found a winning formula with the WLH formula. Even being potted, they rock.

Regardless, Duncan makes great pickups and often get overlooked as generic when they definitely are not.
 

bill m

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That is true. Tim measured Page's PAF neck and it came in at about 8.68k AL2. I suspect it was measured in the circuit so from what I'm told it will meter higher so it may actually be around 8.2k ish. Some pots don't zero out as I'm told from Bill M. Something technical like that. I don't even want to try speaking for him. After all, who would be bold enough to unsolder the pickups in Page's #1? Tim's Riff Raff is a close match to the bridge in spec. Not sure of the wind, but it likely does the more
modern Page thing well.
My statement is true. I have measured hot PAF's through the output jack and got readings like 9.2k, and only to find after they were unsoldered from the circuit they read 8k, or 8.2k. Anyone who has ever dealt with vintage PAF's and vintage guitars in general will know this. After removing the said pickup, I would meter the pot and at its lowest setting would still read 150, 300 ohms, which will make the measured value through the output jack much higher. So, in a nutshell, many paf specs that are floating around are not correct if they have been measured through the output jack, as I suspect many of them have.
 

darthphineas

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S Duncan was in London at the time of the greats and rewound pickups for some of them. Waaay later, page used a s duncan pickup. London, Page, 70s S Duncan WHL. The blurb on WHL tries to make all these connect. Why? Well everybody loves to be page by buying a pickup, so a nice cash cow with no royalties. Page used a s Duncan after Zep, so that's why it doesn't specifically say WHL are the same as pages original, it's just ambiguous and leads you to believe this. In my lp the WHL sound great, but not trebly like pages early sound, more middy, but that's why I like them. Another thought. Maybe the seymour Duncan was also in Pages guitar when a UK winder had it on his bench. So is the Riff Raff similar the Seymour Duncan pickup, or his original Paff, and why is Tims riff Raff the closest, and not his black dogs, which were supposed to be the Zep pickup ? I would also think I could have pages exact original equipment and sound nothing like him. .




Heh. Whole Lotta Bulls**t ;)


Duncan also pussyfoots around the whole 78 model, and on the forums several years ago really upped the BS level about the JB model and it meaning " jazz/blues".

Not to discredit the sound of the pickups...duncans are good stuff, but the marketing team must think we are a bunch of morons.


You guys might be on to more than you know. Additionally, some of the people that writes copy for them has been popped time and time again for inaccuracies and speaking beyond their realm. Seymour is a legend and built a company that can put out some good stuff, but.....times have been a changing the past few years.
 

Semitone

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So, did Page create the tone on all the classic Zeppelin albums with a custom wound Duncan or just a plain old T top? If anyone has the definitive answer, i would appreciate it. Thanks!
I thought it was pretty well known (accepted?) that Page used his telecaster for a lot of the STUDIO work on the early albums, particularly Whole a Lotta Love and Stairway to Heaven. No?
 

OldBenKenobi

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I thought it was pretty well known (accepted?) that Page used his telecaster for a lot of the STUDIO work on the early albums, particularly Whole a Lotta Love and Stairway to Heaven. No?
I've heard different things regarding WLL, although it's confirmed that the Stairway solo was the Tele's swan song. But I also happen to think the Tele's significance is way overblown outside of the first album.
 

AJK1

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Original PAF's used till Feb 72 when it died in Australia, so it was on II III IV
T-Top from Houses of The Holy onwards
And yes, SD is a bit naughty with their wording, as it wasn't used till after Led Zep finished.
Original PAF's made the most memorable Zep sounds in my opinion
And they were almost certainly Alnico 2
 

VictorB

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Original PAF's used till Feb 72 when it died in Australia, so it was on II III IV
T-Top from Houses of The Holy onwards
And yes, SD is a bit naughty with their wording, as it wasn't used till after Led Zep finished.
Original PAF's made the most memorable Zep sounds in my opinion
And they were almost certainly Alnico 2
This is why I'm using Electric City Royal Tributes in my R9.

They're the perfect Page set from the pre T Top era.
 

Gschoolar

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the Seymour didn't find its way into Page's guitar til long after Zep finished. its the T Top on all stuff from 72-80.
I am confused: in many places I have read that Page’s post-72 #1 Les Paul had T-Tops in the bridge that had a significantly LOWER resistance than his PAF neck pickup. But all the after market pickups that claim to approximate Page’s tone have bridge resistance values that are HIGHER than the neck values. Why is that?
 

VictorB

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I am confused: in many places I have read that Page’s post-72 #1 Les Paul had T-Tops in the bridge that had a significantly LOWER resistance than his PAF neck pickup. But all the after market pickups that claim to approximate Page’s tone have bridge resistance values that are HIGHER than the neck values. Why is that?
You really can’t go by winder’s resistance values... although it could be a red flag.

When you buy a particular set of pickups based on a winder’s perception of a particular sound, it may not jive with reality.

A friend of mine showed me a set of pickups that were “Warren Haynes” voiced. The neck had a much lower resistance value than the bridge. Warren is known for his very “loud” neck tone, almost if not a match for his bridge.

Do the pickups my friend pointed out to me nail Haynes’ tone? I have no idea. However if all things are equal, there’s no way they do, as much as the winder perceives they do.
 

Gschoolar

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You really can’t go by winder’s resistance values... although it could be a red flag.

When you buy a particular set of pickups based on a winder’s perception of a particular sound, it may not jive with reality.

A friend of mine showed me a set of pickups that were “Warren Haynes” voiced. The neck had a much lower resistance value than the bridge. Warren is known for his very “loud” neck tone, almost if not a match for his bridge.

Do the pickups my friend pointed out to me nail Haynes’ tone? I have no idea. However if all things are equal, there’s no way they do, as much as the winder perceives they do.
Yes, that’s probably part of it. But still, I’m looking to understand this better.
 

jonesy

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Several original T-Tops that I owned and measured read around 7.7K
 

ARandall

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Yes, that’s probably part of it. But still, I’m looking to understand this better.
You see the thing is that Page's neck pickup was a high K reading.....even with original PAF in the bridge it was significantly louder. But he never used it full volume.....or almost never.
So in reproducing the tone you usually heard from him you are pretty much hearing a pickup of a lower output......or essentially adjusted to similar volume to the bridge one.
To do this aftermarket, the bridge often is wound to a higher turn count. So most winders make a set useful for those not adept at control manipulation.....which nowadays is practically everybody.

But not all sets are like that. There are more than a few that go the whole hog. But the makers typically have to give out operational info for the buyers. Otherwise complaints ensue.
 

AcVox

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Joe Walsh brought that guitar from the US to London convinced that it was the guitar Jimmy needed for use in his new band.

Think about that for a moment, and you just know that Jimmy was handed from Joe a Les Paul, tuned, intonated and set up beyond perfection.
It worked, and that generosity sealed a friendship that survives to this day.

Even prior to 1972 that Les Paul had a very distinctive tone in the middle selector position. I wouldn't be surprised if Joe Walsh ensured that the PAF s fitted to that Les Paul would have that distinctive tone because he knew it was what Jimmy was looking for, and perhaps why he brought the guitar to London personally.

Highly speculative, I know and please, everyone bear this in mind..

It's just that the first 'burst to enter the UK was owned by Keith Richards. It had a Bigsby and surely every guitarist in London wanted to play it.

Jimmy Page was one of the first and there is a picture of him with shorter hair playing it in the studio.
Later Eric Clapton would be photographed with it in the weeks following the theft of his mythical 'Beano' burst.

It would be most associated with Mick Taylor during his stint with the 'Stones'. By this time it had lost the Bigsby but not its unique tone, especially the tone in the middle selector position..

The neck is wound hotter than the bridge and this gives this particular 'burst a very distinctive tone that I'm speculating made an impression on a young session guitarist that perhaps he chased and found when Joe first opened that case..

Entirely speculative, but I hope thought provoking.
 


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