JCM 800 clarification

[UKyank]

What's the difference in the models 1959, 1986, 1987, 1992, 2203, 2204, 2205, and 2210? Aren't some of these just "re-issues" of earlier models? I've also read that the heads with vertical inputs are more sought after than horizontal inputs...selling ploy or truth? I've got a line on a 2205 which I am led to believe is a 2 channel head, can anyone give me a tone report?

 

[Liam]

Marshall model numbers:

1959 - 100 watt Superlead 4 hole non MV head
1986 - 50 watt Bass 4 hole non MV head
1987 - 50 watt Lead 4 hole non MV head
1992 - I'll have to go away and think, should know but can't remember
2203 - 100 watt Master Volume 2 input head (Single channel)
2204 - 50 watt Master Volume 2 input head (Single channel)
2205 - 50 watt Dual channel with reverb head
2210 - 100 watt Dual channel with reverb head

Reissues of what? JCM800s were just amps, like JMP. The reissue thing hadn't really been invented back then.

Vertical input JCM800s were facelifts of the JMP range. Only the 2203/4 and derivative combos fall into this category. The later horizontal input versions have PCB mounted input jacks. It's not exactly the end of the world.

2205: Loved by many. Marshall's first high gain 50 watt channel switcher. Uses diode clipping to get the driven tone. Only got one jack input, so you get the best of both worlds as it it horizontal and vertical input both at the same time.

 

[Big John]

Damn it, Liam beat me to it. Oh well, I'll go ahead and show what I came up with...

1959 100w, guitar, 2 channels, 2 inputs per channel, non master volume, all tube
1992 100w, bass, 2 channels, 2 inputs per channel, non master volume, all tube
1987 50w, guitar, 2 channels, 2 inputs per channel, non master volume, all tube
1986 50w, bass, 2 channels, 2 inputs per channel, non master volume, all tube
2203 100w, guitar, 1 channel, 2 inputs, master volume, all tube
2204 50w, guitar, 1 channel, 2 inputs, master volume, all tube
2210 100w, guitar, 2 channels, 1 input, diode clipping for distortion
2205 50w, guitar, 2 channel, 1 input, diode clipping for distortion

Vertical inputs on the 2203 & 2204 are connected to the board with flying leads. Horizontal inputs are directly solderred to the PCB.

 

[dwagar]

2205: Loved by many. Marshall's first high gain 50 watt channel switcher. Uses diode clipping to get the driven tone. Only got one jack input, so you get the best of both worlds as it it horizontal and vertical input both at the same time.

and not loved by many. It's a taste thing.

The vertical/horizontal thing only applies to 100W, when applied to a 50W it's, er, marketing (other than the input jacks mounted to the PCB).

When the 100W head switched to horizontal inputs, they also made other changes, that didn't affect the 2204 (50W) heads. I can't remember offhand, Filter Caps, and something else.

 

[Liam]

Big John,

Might have beaten you to it, but now I remember what a 1992 is! Thanks!!!

Don,

Yes, that matches my recollection fairly well. Filter cap arrangement was changed on the 100 watters, first one got moved to the other side of the choke. I guess it might have changed the sag a bit, but the ones that still have the old "mustard" caps sound so much better to me. Can't believe anyone gets hung up on the differences between the JCM800 models when the early JMP Mk2 2203 was the best thing Marshall ever built (IMHO).

The 2205 has its place in the scheme of things despite being disliked by many. Most of the boutique stuff of the 90's was based on 2203/4/5/10 circuitry in one way or another.

Liam

 

[analogsystem]

Liam is the man! Nice posts!

 

[VIREBEL661]

and not loved by many. It's a taste thing.

The vertical/horizontal thing only applies to 100W, when applied to a 50W it's, er, marketing (other than the input jacks mounted to the PCB).

When the 100W head switched to horizontal inputs, they also made other changes, that didn't affect the 2204 (50W) heads. I can't remember offhand, Filter Caps, and something else.

YEP - they halved the filter caps on the 2203 and 1959 to 3 from 6 as a cost cutting measure... I have a weird one with 5 actually, right when they started to cheapen production. Also, in the US they switched from 6550 power tubes to EL34's around this time (1985-86); a plus for many, but I personally prefer 6550's.

 

[dwagar]

There's a note about this on this page, exactly the same as Virebel661 mentions above:
(this article also mentions the 5 cap head too btw) - filter caps and power supply changes.

The Marshall Shopper's Guide -

In essence, the "three-capped" 100 watt JCM 800 was the first Marshall that did NOT necessarily sound better as the volume went up - in fact, it began to sound worse - more grainy, thin, and muddy as the volume increased. REMEMBER: THIS is simply MY opinion represented above - you may prefer the later JCM 800's as is your right to do so!

I think this is the main reason guys look for vertical inputs, not actually knowing why they want them. Early ones had the caps, later ones didn't.

 

[UKyank]

Thanks for the info fellas. I've always found the whole JTM, JMP, JCM 800 monikers a bit confusing. Same model numbers different "Lines." Got it.

I currently have a 2104 combo that I really like. I also have a very lonely 4X12 cab with no head. I heard the JCM 800 range had more gain which is what I'm after. There are a few things I'm watching on EBay and I'm going to Norwich tomorrow with some cash (always dangerous window shopping with money in my pocket.) Again thanks for the info!

 

[VictorB]

I have a 1981 4104 Combo, sweetest amp I've ever owned. for more info, see here: Marshall Amps :: Heritage

 

[Boleskinehouse]

Very cool thread. I didn't know about the caps on the later 2203s. I knew they were different and not as desirable, but I didn't know why. Thanks!

 

[dwagar]

but, as that guy said in that article, "you may prefer the later JCM 800's as is your right to do so!"

UKYank, have you thought about moving the amp out of the combo into a head cab?

I'm actually in the process of building a head cab for the amp out of my 4010 combo right now (I want to use this head with my Dual Showman 2x15 JBL cab).

 

[UKyank]

Dwager,

No really haven't thought about converting into a head unit. I'm actually a combo guy at heart. I used to own this 4X12 cabnet 12 years ago and resently bought it back for $20, and now that I have it seems I have to get a head to top it off..

 

[dwagar]

exactly what I'm doing, I've had the old JBL cab since about 1970. But rather than buy another head, I'll just move the 2204 amp out of the 4010 - if I need the combo, I'll just switch it back (I'll keep the combo cab in the storage room).

 

[dwagar]

here's a pic of what I'm working on, a cab for the amp from the combo - you could do the same kinda thing. Because it's out of a combo, it hangs from the top.
(I'm waiting on piping and a new logo, then I'll be covering it in tolex.)

 

[UKyank]

Looks like a cool project.....but I purchased something today........pics tomorrow.........totally different direction.

 

[Boleskinehouse]

here's a pic of what I'm working on, a cab for the amp from the combo - you could do the same kinda thing. Because it's out of a combo, it hangs from the top.
(I'm waiting on piping and a new logo, then I'll be covering it in tolex.)

Wow, that's really cool! Any particular reason why the change? Was there something you didn't like about the combo?

 

[coldsteal2]

here's a pic of what I'm working on, a cab for the amp from the combo - you could do the same kinda thing. Because it's out of a combo, it hangs from the top.
(I'm waiting on piping and a new logo, then I'll be covering it in tolex.)

Nice

 

[dwagar]

Wow, that's really cool! Any particular reason why the change? Was there something you didn't like about the combo?

I just want to use the head with my Dual Showman tall cab - 2x15" JBL D130s. I've had this cab since about '70, thought I'd put it to use. Looking for a bit different tone than I'm getting out of the 4-12" Celestions. I'm hoping for a little closer to Dickie Betts tone. May or may not work.

But I am keeping the combo cab, it only takes 5 mins to pop it back in there if I want to use the combo somewhere.

This gives me both options, without having to spring for a new head. And I really really like this head.

 

[UKyank]

So I may still buy a JCM 800 in the future, well make that probably....but in the mean-time I picked this up...