Is it possible to buy genuine old-growth Honduras mahogany for an LP build?

[the passenger]

I want to make the perfect 59-style LP, this is a lifetime dream of mine. I have builder friends who would help me do it and in the process I would also learn the tricks.

The problem is I have absolutely no idea where I could source lightweight old-growth Honduras mahogany, the real deal with tight growth-rings and dry, hollow tap tone. Body and neck blank. Everyday I'm kicking my head into the wall that I didn't purchase a kit from Bartlett when those were still available and for such a great price. I guess he wouldn't send a body and a neck to the EU anymore, would he?

BRW and Eastern maple seem to be much easier to get hold of. Any tips?

 

[ARandall]

You say you have builder 'friends', who have seemingly the knowledge, contacts and experience with this sort of thing, but are forcing you (a newbie) to find the wood??

To be perfectly frank, I'd doubt the wood you're asking for exists nowadays in the first place. And even then most of it will be the more boat anchor stuff (if my experience of more recent purchases I've made of supposed old growth has been an example - more like needing chambering to avoid an 11lb guitar, or the lighter stuff is multi-piece)
Second point is that IME tight grain is not what mahogany is about. Open wide grain will give the typical old school mahogany structure, especially for the body. Tight straight growth rings is what you go for in a spruce top for an acoustic. QS is necessary for the neck blank, but even then you don't need anything more than that.....you see even many bursts with grain runout in the headstock.

 

[P.H.Fawcett]

What about this source ? You might need to put in some time to get around to timber suppliers and search for Mahogany with the characteristics you're looking for. As you probably know you can luck upon the right pieces you want but you'll have to get to feel, weigh and get an idea of the tap tone.

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[cmjohnson]

I may have to dig out my mahogany slab that I got in a garage sale at least five years back, which at the time had been in the possession of the previous owner for at LEAST 40 years. It's plenty big enough for an LP and a neck blank along with it, too, if I remember right.

If I find it I'll measure it, weigh it, and check for a good tap tone. IF it seems like the sort of quality piece set you're looking for, I'm not opposed to selling it for a reasonable price. Nothing crazy, just fair market value.

I don't think that old growth vs. newer growth matters much to tone. And I don't mind a heavier body. A 10 pound LP is totally fine for me. So I don't attach any special importance to that piece, but it is a nice piece of genuine Honduran with some age on it. But I have other good pieces as well.

In truth I don't expect to use all my body blank stash before I make what ends up being my last guitar.

 

[cmjohnson]

I dug out the pieces.

Larger piece: 26 and 3/4" length, 13 and 1/8" width. Flatsawn. Very well flat and centered down the middle of the piece with very little arch to the rings. Weight 13 pounds 0 ounces.

Smaller piece: 24 and 3/4" length, 6 and 1/4" width. (Wide enough for two neck blanks) Flatsawn.
You would need to splice some wood if you wanted the tenon to extend past the end of a 22 fret fingerboard. It IS long enough to reach the end of the fingerboard.


Both are 1 and 5/8" thick.

Calculated density of the larger board: 39.275 pounds/cubic foot, slightly lighter than average for Honduran. Or 3.273 pounds per board foot.

 

[pshupe]

I dug out the pieces.

Larger piece: 26 and 3/4" length, 13 and 1/8" width. Flatsawn. Very well flat and centered down the middle of the piece with very little arch to the rings. Weight 13 pounds 0 ounces.

Smaller piece: 24 and 3/4" length, 6 and 1/4" width. (Wide enough for two neck blanks) Flatsawn.
You would need to splice some wood if you wanted the tenon to extend past the end of a 22 fret fingerboard. It IS long enough to reach the end of the fingerboard.


Both are 1 and 5/8" thick.

Calculated density of the larger board: 39.275 pounds/cubic foot, slightly lighter than average for Honduran. Or 3.273 pounds per board foot.

Body should be 1 3/4" thick and pretty tight on width as well. The smaller piece will not work for a LP neck blank, you may be able to scarf joint it but I think since the OP mentions "the perfect 59 style LP" I doubt this will work. Also it's a bit heavy for a replica. Generally shoot for under 3 lbs/b.f..

Cheers Peter.

 

[Duane_the_tub]

A good supplier can source this for you. It's out there. The blank I got for this build was a century old, and the finished guitar weighs 8.5 lbs.

 

[ARandall]

Remember guys.....the OP is in the EU. Unless you're going to go out of your way to apply for CITES export permits for your wood then its sort of irrelevant checking personal stocks.

 

[valvetoneman]

Good luck finding lightweight mahogany in EU, I've given up in the UK, I use the lightest most suitable stuff I can find and I've gone in a different building direction anyway, got sick of looking for so called correct woods when there are so many other good woods out there.

 

[LtDave32]

You say you have builder 'friends', who have seemingly the knowledge, contacts and experience with this sort of thing, but are forcing you (a newbie) to find the wood??

To be perfectly frank, I'd doubt the wood you're asking for exists nowadays in the first place. And even then most of it will be the more boat anchor stuff (if my experience of more recent purchases I've made of supposed old growth has been an example - more like needing chambering to avoid an 11lb guitar, or the lighter stuff is multi-piece)
Second point is that IME tight grain is not what mahogany is about. Open wide grain will give the typical old school mahogany structure, especially for the body. Tight straight growth rings is what you go for in a spruce top for an acoustic. QS is necessary for the neck blank, but even then you don't need anything more than that.....you see even many bursts with grain runout in the headstock.

I agree completely with this.

It's just not around. One's best chances are to get it from an old solid-core door or something.

Following simple logic, if it were sitting there as a guitar body blank, 8/4 and 14" wide, 18" tall, and thre are no outstanding blems and the billet weighed under10 lbs..

...it would have been used. Nobody keeps such an ideal piece just lying around for 50 years.

A scant precious few may be out there in some luthier's private stash, but it would be almost impossible to find. Like a 1950's set of Lionel trains in a dusty box in some attic.

 

[lowatter]

I agree completely with this.

It's just not around. One's best chances are to get it from an old solid-core door or something.

Following simple logic, if it were sitting there as a guitar body blank, 8/4 and 14" wide, 18" tall, and thre are no outstanding blems and the billet weighed under10 lbs..

...it would have been used. Nobody keeps such an ideal piece just lying around for 50 years.

A scant precious few may be out there in some luthier's private stash, but it would be almost impossible to find. Like a 1950's set of Lionel trains in a dusty box in some attic.

My father has a 1950's Lionel set in his basement.

 

[Brek]

reclamation is how the tone hounds in the UK find that old lightweight wood to build with. finding pieces big enough is what the issue is with that though.

 

[LtDave32]

My father has a 1950's Lionel set in his basement.

Worth a bloody fortune.

 

[pshupe]

I completely agree that it is much harder to find. I am lucky I live quite close to an exotic woods supplier that seems to get some nice stuff in from time to time. They even have a scale available. They actually have a "guitar room" with blanks already cut, thickness, and planed. Every time I go in I'll check there and weigh a bunch of blanks. If I find a nice blank around 3 lbs/bf I'll pick it up.

Here is an issue, that I guess is good to have but, I have quite a few blanks stickered up in my shop not limited to mahogany but also braz fret boards, maple caps, and mahogany neck blanks. Some of them are so nice I can never use them! LOL Here is a really nice lightweight mahogany body blank.

You can see the dimensions and it weighs in at about 8lbs. I'm somewhat kidding about the "so good I'll never use it" quote, as I expect to use this for a personal 59LP build. Although I do have some braz boards that I seem not to be able to part with, or build with. Anyone else have this issue? I'm looking for some sort of therapy to get over my affliction.

Cheers Peter.

PS - notice the price - those are Can$ folks. You may be able to figure out how long I have had this blank. Just checking their website now and they are selling these blanks for Can$245 (US$181). D'oh!!!

 

[Freddy G]

I was at Exotic Woods yesterday. Bought a whole wack of different woods including some sweet Honduras Mahogany. Yep, they brought out the scale for me.....I pulled a bunch of 11 foot boards and found 2 that were 2.9 pounds per board foot. They even had body blanks made up that were 22" X 18"....enough to do a 1 piece flying V!
I had a piece of lumber that a friend gave me about 15 years ago. 2" X 10" X 60". Heavy as hell. I thought it might be Bubinga but wasn't sure. So I brought it with me for the guys at Exotic Woods to check out. It took them about a half hour to narrow it down, but the final conclusion was Mukulungu...and they actually had some in stock. It was 100% dead ringer.
God, I love that place.

 

[valvetoneman]

reclamation is how the tone hounds in the UK find that old lightweight wood to build with. finding pieces big enough is what the issue is with that though.

I've done that years ago and there's not as much around now, I just stopped looking because it becomes a bloody chor, I'll buy the odd lightweight bit if it comes up otherwise I'm using something else and couldn't care less if it doesn't sound like Peter Green in his heyday or anyone else.

Khaya is going on the cities list so no more will be coming to the UK, I know one supplier who said he's got his last shipment on it's way, people need to look for alternatives imo

 

[pshupe]

Khaya is going on the cities list so no more will be coming to the UK, I know one supplier who said he's got his last shipment on it's way, people need to look for alternatives imo

CITES Appendix II stuff doesn't seem to have any issues here in Canada or even shipping to the USA. I've shipped guitars with Genuine mahogany and rosewood fretboards without issue, no paperwork. It may have been different if I build a lot though but generally I can get all this stuff. It's just doubled or tripled in price in the last 4 - 5 yrs.

Cheers Peter.

 

[valvetoneman]

CITES Appendix II stuff doesn't seem to have any issues here in Canada or even shipping to the USA. I've shipped guitars with Genuine mahogany and rosewood fretboards without issue, no paperwork. It may have been different if I build a lot though but generally I can get all this stuff. It's just doubled or tripled in price in the last 4 - 5 yrs.

Cheers Peter.

Seems you can get everything in USA and probably Canada, here it's more hassle than it's worth, I've stopped building straight Les Pauls and don't actually care anymore, I've got my own versions of carved tops but my offsets are what's floating my boat more than anything, I have no restrictions in woods hardware or anything else which suits me fine, I've gone more lightweight too, anything much over 7.5lb and I'm not really interested, I have to use lightweight woods.

It's been a good thing for my own builds tbh.

 

[valvetoneman]

Here's what I'm doing, these are the thickness of a junior but look like a burst, custom and goldtop from the front, these will weigh around 7.5 ish pounds, my burst is next.
I'll post a thread up when these are finished, they're called royale 54 55 59

 

[LtDave32]

It's these reasons I've switched almost completely to Spanish cedar.

Light, resonant, beautiful pecan color and free of silicates.

There are a lot of silicates in Honduras mahogany from being growm in sandy, loamy soil, making them heavy and hard on tools.

This info was gathered by me from multiple sources and studies. It is why you see HM at over 3 lbs a board foot.