Intonation nightmare - G string

[fendrix]

Hi All,

I’m having many issues with the intonation of my Les Paul. In particular with the G string.

I have 0.06” / 0.15mm of neck relief right now and the notes are sharp on the lower frets and flat on the higher frets. It’s perfectly intonated at the 12th fret though.

I wonder wether adding or subtracting relief would help in this case.

My action is not on medium /low

1.5mm high E and 1.85mm low E.

Any ideas, suggestions?

Thanks

 

[Biddlin]

See a good tech. Diagnosing and prescribing at a distance is sketchy at best.

 

[Tone deaf]

Do you have the stop tail piece all the way down to the deck? Try bringing the STP up, until those fretted lower notes and open basic chords come into tune.

 

[PierM]

now and the notes are sharp on the lower frets and flat on the higher frets. It’s perfectly intonated at the 12th fret though.

I'm not sure what do you mean with this sentence. Guitars are using equal temperament, so they'll never produce all the fret/notes perfectly in tune. That is impossible (search for equal temperament guitar for more informations). This system always tend to go sharp on the lower frets, and flat on the higher, and it's also completely subject to finger pressure on the frets. These are VERY imprecise instruments...

All you need to worry about is to intonate the notes at the 12th fret so that the second part of the fretboard will be (more or less) intonated with the first part (scale lenght/2).

 

[fendrix]

Do you have the stop tail piece all the way down to the deck? Try bringing the STP up, until those fretted lower notes and open basic chords come into tune.

I have it all the way down and strings are topwrapped

 

[fendrix]

I'm not sure what do you mean with this sentence. Guitars are using equal temperament, so they'll never produce all the fret/notes perfectly in tune. That is impossible (search for equal temperament guitar for more informations). This system always tend to go sharp on the lower frets, and flat on the higher, and it's also completely subject to finger pressure on the frets. These are VERY imprecise instruments...

All you need to worry about is to intonate the notes at the 12th fret so that the second part of the fretboard will be (more or less) intonated with the first part (scale lenght/2).

Right, thanks Pier! Well I was just wondering if there was something I could do to improve it a bit. The intonation for every other string is pretty much accurate all over the neck. Its just the G that causes trouble.

As I had to slightly sand the board due to very rough condition when new I wouldn’t be surprised If I’d left a few slightly deeper spots in the middle of the board that makes notes go sharp.

 

[DDcat]

"the notes are sharp on the lower frets and flat on the higher frets" If I understand correctly - If the first few frets on the G string fret sharp there is a good possibility that your nut is too high. Carefully taking the slot down should fix. If you aren't comfortable with doing this take it to a tech.

 

[fendrix]

"the notes are sharp on the lower frets and flat on the higher frets" If I understand correctly - If the first few frets on the G string fret sharp there is a good possibility that your nut is too high. Carefully taking the slot down should fix. If you aren't comfortable with doing this take it to a tech.

Many thanks for the help, yes you got it right sorry for my english. Yea that could perfectly be the cause. It goes sharp up to the 10th fret tho, also some frets in between are not sharp while others are.

 

[Tone deaf]

Try raising the STP. It is easy and you'll quickly see whether or not it helps. I have had this problem with 3+ Les Pauls and playing with the STP solved it, every time.

We had some lengthy discussion of exactly this issue, several years ago. If I could find the thread, I'd link to it.

If you reduce the string tension, by raising the STP, your fretting fingers won't be pulling those low notes sharp. At least that is what I tell myself when I fret those in tune notes.

 

[DarrellV]

Many thanks for the help, yes you got it right sorry for my english. Yea that could perfectly be the cause. It goes sharp up to the 10th fret tho, also some frets in between are not sharp while others are.

PierM is correct in his statement of the imperfect notes across the fretboard.

Having been through what you are going through a lot over the years, I'm going to say that getting a pefect note on each fret is not the important thing to ttry to achieve.

Intonation means by definition the guitar's ability to be in tune with itself.

It will likely never be perfect, but the goal is to get it to be in tune with itself enough that your chord work up and down the neck sound as consonant as possible. With minimal beats within the chords.

This gets more noticeable with gain and distortion.

I intonate mine with distortion for that reason. Once I can get it to sing clearly with gain, the clean sounds heavenly.

12th fret is a good reference point but it is not the do all be all of intonation. Only a good starting point.

You may find that you have to actually set your saddles to be a bit flat so the string comes up to proper pitch under your finger pressure while playing.

Use your ears more than the tuner.

Its easy to get lost doing it this way, so always recheck your tuning between adjustments, including your 12th fret reference.

Slack and re tension your string to pitch after each movement of the saddles to release the bind of the string over the saddle.

 

[scozz]

Lots of good info here ...especially from @PierM and @DarrellV.

I will add one note, (no pun intended ) Your action is a bit high imo, and if your nut is cut high as @DDcat suggests, it could cause intonation problems. Especially if you have a heavy handed left hand.

 

[AussieDave]

I had a similar problem. Chords near the end were off no matter how well tuned. I had the nut replaced with a bone version and boom everything was fine. I don’t think I’m to heavy handed but there you go.

 

[Les Paul John]

Hi All,

I’m having many issues with the intonation of my Les Paul. In particular with the G string.

I have 0.06” / 0.15mm of neck relief right now and the notes are sharp on the lower frets and flat on the higher frets. It’s perfectly intonated at the 12th fret though.

I wonder wether adding or subtracting relief would help in this case.

My action is not on medium /low

1.5mm high E and 1.85mm low E.

Any ideas, suggestions?

Thanks

First thing I noticed is the neck relief is almost flat without any bow and you stated you do a top wrap on the stopbar.

Difficult from long distance but you stated that you sanded some areas on your fretboard ... this would not cause this. Yngwie Malnsteen uses scalloped fretboards and has no intonation issues unless he presses too hard while playing.

I’m also going to assume your strings haven’t been on the guitar for an entire year and are dead old tarnished strings. I’m assuming you changed the strings to see if made a difference.

The amount of string angle over the saddle makes a difference, meaning if the string is pushed down on too much over its point of contact it will hold its shape and be difficult to adjust intonation.

The neck relief is vital to have correct. Notes sing (sustain) the best at 0.012” ... 0.010” is ok, I can’t imagine less than that would be good at all to play. The strings must be buzzing badly or you compensated by raising the string height too high to stop string buzz which would cause your intonation issues as well.

I’d have to have the guitar in person and then set it up correctly which you would probably hate because you’re not used to that.

 

[Frogfur]

I have it all the way down and strings are topwrapped

.

 

[Frogfur]

Right, thanks Pier! Well I was just wondering if there was something I could do to improve it a bit. The intonation for every other string is pretty much accurate all over the neck. Its just the G that causes trouble.

As I had to slightly sand the board due to very rough condition when new I wouldn’t be surprised If I’d left a few slightly deeper spots in the middle of the board that makes notes go sharp.

Bingo ..

 

[fendrix]

Thanks everyone, I guess it's time for a refret and board planning.

 

[Robus]

Ajusting neck relief is not the way to set intonation.

 

[Cjsinla]

Thanks everyone, I guess it's time for a refret and board planning.

That sounds a little drastic, I hope you’re being sarcastic.

 

[DADGAD]

Stop tail slammed isn’t always necessary. I recently found the secret sauce to Slash tone. Have your tech raise the bridge and tail to the moon! This pic is from early 2000’s. I think.

From this video.

 

[rogue3]

If you can't get enough extension on the G string saddle for intonation,you can flip the saddle around for a couple extra mm's,if you are at the end of its travel...just a suggestion, whatever the case may be....also,replace that string with a new one,just to see.