Installed a treble bleed with 50’s wiring !

peterjc

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Have an R7 from 2011 with burstbuckers 1 & 2 but always found the neck pickup muddy, especially with volume rolled off! I know people say that it’s pretty much redundant to fit treble bleed with 50’s wiring but I had a spare one to try in it and the results were what I was after. It feels much more alive with volume wide open but definitely retains more treble when rolled off. So for me and my guitar it seemed to work...have you guys had similar results with a muddy neck pickup with 50’s wiring?
 
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peterjc

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What no one?.. surely someone has experience muddy neck pickup when rolled off with 50’s wiring.
 

Pappy35

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I recently converted an Epi and installed Seth Lovers, new pots and caps, and 50's wiring. I don't have treble loss (which is the reason I did it).
 

Tubejockey

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If you do a cap with no resistor as your treble bleed, it will actually get brighter when rolled down.
 

ARandall

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The only time I've had muddy necks are where the guitar and pickups are poorly matched. But thats at 10 as well.....so the extra treble the 50's wiring 'keeps' as you roll down isn't there in the first place.
 

Tubejockey

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Never knew that. With 50’s wiring or both? What value?
Any value works, depending on what frequencies you want to emphasize. The bigger the value, the lower the knee in your high-pass filter. It is true regardless of 50s or modern wiring, although turning down your tone control will obviously remove the highs you're trying to emphasize. I would probably start with .001uF and adjust to taste from there.
 

peterjc

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Any value works, depending on what frequencies you want to emphasize. The bigger the value, the lower the knee in your high-pass filter. It is true regardless of 50s or modern wiring, although turning down your tone control will obviously remove the highs you're trying to emphasize. I would probably start with .001uF and adjust to taste from there.
Tried it but the pickup didn’t clean up as well. It definitely retained all treble detail but the pickup became dirtier when rolled off. Almost no effect (didn’t clean up) until volume pot was on 1. Needs the resistor for better taper but also to clean up signal it seems...
 

Tubejockey

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Needs the resistor for better taper but also to clean up signal it seems...
A treble bleed will definitely affect the perceived taper, so depending on what you are using for a pot, you might want to add a taper-adjusting resistor to give you better results.
 

mdubya

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All that matters is that you like it.

My neck pickups aren't always the right pickup for the job, but when they are, I never find them muddy.

I am amazed at how much I use the neck and middle positions these days.

The only treble bleed I ever had, I hated.
 

peterjc

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A treble bleed will definitely affect the perceived taper, so depending on what you are using for a pot, you might want to add a taper-adjusting resistor to give you better results.
I’ll keep the normal treble bleed in there, sounds good enough...at least better than without one or one with no resistor. Thanks
 

jcsk8

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With 50´s wiring you should have no treble loss while turning the volume down. You don´t need a treble bleed.
If the problem is the neck pup only you can try:
* Removing the cover.
* Lower the pickup a bit and raise the pole pieces
* Do both
* Check the neck pickup volume value, it should be at least 500k (some are less), 550k would be nice.
* Set your amp for the neck pickup. Lower the bass, increase the highs, untll it´s not muddy anymore .Than the bridge will probably sound sharp, than you roll the tone knob down and you´re good to go.

If not of these works think about change the neck pickup.
 

Pappy35

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<snip>
* Check the neck pickup volume value, it should be at least 500k (some are less), 550k would be nice.
<snip>
This is very true. I just got a brand new Les Paul 50's Standard (which ironically is wired from the factory with the "modern" circuit) and it's volume pots are 441 and 488 kOhm. The tone pots are 461 and 515 kOhm but that's less important I think than the volume values. I switched it to 50's style and have a new set of four matched pots coming from The Art of Tone. I'm amazed at the woodwork and finish but whoever is running their soldering stations there need some pointers (they left the switch harness shield wire off or it broke off in transit among a couple of other issues I found).
 
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jcsk8

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This is very true. I just got a brand new Les Paul 50's Standard (which ironically is wired from the factory with the "modern" circuit) and it's volume pots are 441 and 488 kOhm. The tone pots are 461 and 515 kOhm but that's less important I think than the volume values. I switched it to 50's style and have a new set of four matched pots coming from The Art of Tone. I amazed at the woodwork and finish but whoever is running their soldering stations there need some pointers (they left the switch harness shield wire off or it broke off in transit among a couple of other issues I found).
I think a good 550K wiring is a must for les pauls, even before a pickup swap.
 

Pappy35

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I think a good 550K wiring is a must for les pauls, even before a pickup swap.
I agree but where can I find non-audio taper, close-tolerance, pots. I like ~70/30 taper and that's the trick. 90/10 "audio" taper doesn't work for me in the volume position.
 

peterjc

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With 50´s wiring you should have no treble loss while turning the volume down. You don´t need a treble bleed.
If the problem is the neck pup only you can try:
* Removing the cover.
* Lower the pickup a bit and raise the pole pieces
* Do both
* Check the neck pickup volume value, it should be at least 500k (some are less), 550k would be nice.
* Set your amp for the neck pickup. Lower the bass, increase the highs, untll it´s not muddy anymore .Than the bridge will probably sound sharp, than you roll the tone knob down and you´re good to go.

If not of these works think about change the neck pickup.
I understand you can do those things to solve the problem but I’d already solved it as per original post, so I won’t be removing any pots, wiring etc. or changing pickups for the same result. I like the pickup in there (burstbucker 1) but now even better I’ve solved the roll off problem. It actually sounds better wide open now too (a little more alive) but also retains most of the treble detail when rolled off, so treble bleed with 50’s wiring worked for me. Cheers
 
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