Install frets before or after gluing fretboard?

[Knarbens]

How do you guys do it?

I assume it's easier to work on the frets or hammer them in when you do it before gluing the fretboard to the neck. It's quite simple to have the fretboard straight for leveling also. Would like to hear your opinion.

What's the best way to glue an all completed fretboard to the neck?

 

[ihavenofish]

installing on a flat block is easiest, either an unglued fretboard or one glued to a neck blank thats not carved.

"better" is probabaly fretting after the fretboard is glued to the blank because the board can warp after gluing.

my preference because of the way i cnc things is to fret the board, then glue it to a carved neck back.

 

[bruce bennett]

I prefer installing frest AFTER the board is glued to the neck.
But I'm exploreing the other way right now.

Gibson does it the other way. they fret the board, then glue.

 

[Knarbens]

So what's the best way to glue a fretted board to the neck?
Using a long radiusblock?
Or would a few clamps between the frets do the job also?

 

[ihavenofish]

So what's the best way to glue a fretted board to the neck?
Using a long radiusblock?
Or would a few clamps between the frets do the job also?

a radius block that has clearance slots for each fret. basically slot it like a fretboard with a thick saw blade.

it doesnt need to be a full radius, just needs good contact on the outside edges of the fretboard.

 

[dougk]

I much prefer to glue the fretboard to a back cut but not shaped (ie: my neck is cut to thickness and taper I want but NOT profiled yet) neck. Then I inlay, level and fret, carving last.

I do this for a couple reasons:

1. Any marks, dents, scratches that might happen to the back of the neck will be removed when I profile it.

2. It lets my neck/fretboard sit perfectly square to my arbor press

3. Its much easier to clamp the fretboard to a "square" neck then a rounded one.

I don't notice any major issues with movement after carving.

 

[j.six]

I always install frets after gluing the fretboard in.

 

[ihavenofish]

I much prefer to glue the fretboard to a back cut but not shaped (ie: my neck is cut to thickness and taper I want but NOT profiled yet) neck. Then I inlay, level and fret, carving last.

I do this for a couple reasons:

1. Any marks, dents, scratches that might happen to the back of the neck will be removed when I profile it.

2. It lets my neck/fretboard sit perfectly square to my arbor press

3. Its much easier to clamp the fretboard to a "square" neck then a rounded one.

I don't notice any major issues with movement after carving.

do you hand carve the neck backs or cnc?

i seem to notice most people/factories who fret first then glue are using automates processes (like gibson). seems like its more difficult to machine carve a neck once the fretboard is on. hand carving seems just as easy (or hard) either way.

 

[bruce bennett]

do you hand carve the neck backs or cnc?

i seem to notice most people/factories who fret first then glue are using automates processes (like gibson). seems like its more difficult to machine carve a neck once the fretboard is on. hand carving seems just as easy (or hard) either way.

with "production" the thinking is always.
"make the PARTS first"
then assemble the PARTS into subassemblies.
then the subassembiles into the main asembly.

often times they will do something thats tens times harder only because they are following this general rule. of course once they encounter the "harder way" they usually invent something that makes it faster or more controllable, and being as they usually have the bucks to do whatever is deemed neccessary. they find that right way of doing it which meets all the criteria.

and then they get a patent on it.

Parker guitars is like that.. the only patent they hold is for a production method... NOT the design of the guitar OR what its made of.. only HOW its made.

and for whats its worth, I machine carve my necks AFTER the boards are on and fretted. i actually use the fingeboard as a "key" to hold my neck in position on my jig. this leaves only the neck itself above the table so i can never "hit" my fingerboard when carveing.

 

[LtDave32]

I also carve my necks after the fret board is on. I use the binding over the fretboard as a reference point in shaping the neck sides, Filing and sanding right up to the binding. I carve, file and sand my necks into shape by hand. It really isn't that hard. Plus, with the FB already on, I can gauge the thickness of the neck by using a caliper at key points, measuring from the face of the FB to the back of the neck. Example: I shoot for a measurement between the 1st and 2nd fret of about .830. There are progressive measurements all down the neck, taken from an old Gibson neck that I really like. I rasp and file to get the numbers close, then remove the rest by sanding. One can really get a proper profile by using a contour gauge and transferring the forms from a favorite neck to the work in progress.

Contour gauge:

 

[gator payne]

How do you guys do it?

I assume it's easier to work on the frets or hammer them in when you do it before gluing the fretboard to the neck. It's quite simple to have the fretboard straight for leveling also. Would like to hear your opinion.

What's the best way to glue an all completed fretboard to the neck?

Some insight from the other side of the fence:

Having spent the majority of my carrier building acoustics I have some insight tht most electric bilders don’t see every day

When you fret a loose fretboard the tension that the fret tangs impart on the fretboard makes the fretboard want to cup upward and depending on how and where the tangs fit the snuggest into the fretboard this force can cause twist as well. The closer the frets the more this cupping affect has on the fretboard. Because of this when you glue a fretted fretboard t a neck you are imparting this tension into the neck. Fortunately it is located where the neck is at its strongest so this has little or no effect but none the less this pre tensioned force is there. If there is twist in the fretted fretboard this can have a detrimental effect on the neck becase it is generally a full length issue.

When you fret after the fretboard is installed to the neck you vastly reduce the amount of possible twist. I also have to disagree that gluing an unfretted fretboard leads to neck warp. If you use a water base glue and a neck blank prawn to warp due to grain runout then the preloaded tension of a fretted fretboard does more harm than good. An unfretted fretboard has no tension therefore it does not add to the possibility of neck warp. If anything it reduces the chance of neck warp by some degree. Just like any other lamination helps reduce warp.

Tight fitting tangs hold the frets in place better than loose fitting tangs. Loose fitting tangs impart less tension into the fretboard but don’t hold the frets in place as well. There fit are tolerance limits at each end of this scale.

So When boil it all down the differences are ease of access to install frets vs. to added tension that a pre fretted fretboard brings to the neck assembly. So really it is all about using the right fret slot kerf for the fret tang used. Get this right and it really does not matter which way you do it.

As far as proper clamping is concered.

Depending on your construction method you chould create clamping cauls that properly fit both sides and leave flat surfaces for the clamps to load. So if you radius your neck and your fretboard before gluing your cauls should match very well with both your neck profile and fretboard radius. Friendly Plastic is a wonderful tool for achieving this.

 

[ihavenofish]

I also have to disagree that gluing an unfretted fretboard leads to neck warp.

not sure who you are disagreeing with, noone actually said that.

i said that gluing the board can cause warp or movement. with a FRETTED board this is hard to fix. with an unfretted one you just sand it afterward flat again.

 

[gator payne]

not sure who you are disagreeing with, noone actually said that.

i said that gluing the board can cause warp or movement. with a FRETTED board this is hard to fix. with an unfretted one you just sand it afterward flat again.

Then I miss read! My bad

 

[LtDave32]

Question for Gator:

What do you think about a clamping block with slots cut out over the fret wire, so the clamps press against the fret board wood between the frets..

..The object being not to clamp on top of the frets, thereby avoiding pressure on the center of the curved fret wire, which might flatten them, causing the outer ends of the fret to pull up..

Any merit in this, or is this a waste of effort? The reason I ask is I've seen a few builders make a fretboard clamping block like what I described..

 

[gator payne]

Question for Gator:

What do you think about a clamping block with slots cut out over the fret wire, so the clamps press against the fret board wood between the frets..

..The object being not to clamp on top of the frets, thereby avoiding pressure on the center of the curved fret wire, which might flatten them, causing the outer ends of the fret to pull up..

Any merit in this, or is this a waste of effort? The reason I ask is I've seen a few builders make a fretboard clamping block like what I described..

A lot of merit to it sence it is the fretboard and neck that needs the clamping pressure. Doing a slotted caul also eliminated compression pressure on the frets.

 

[LtDave32]

A lot of merit to it sence it is the fretboard and neck that needs the clamping pressure. Doing a slotted caul also eliminated compression pressure on the frets.

Thanks GP!