Info on 78/79 Matsumoku 335 Clone?

[Axeman16]

The pickups look like early 70's Maxon.
Take a look here: https://jk-guitars.jimdo.com/grecoのハムバッカーたち/

Code looks like '78 on it though, but I thought they stopped making pickups that look like those in '75 or '76.

Route in cavity doesn't look like Fujigen.
Fujigen routes had the lobes in 70's and 80's.

You should try to get a pot code to date the guitar.

that is a great link!

im not familiar with the difference in neck construction and routing between the factories. anyone know a link with a good overview?

who produced the early grecos? and where does the tokai factory fit in with mats, fuji and terada? did the tokai factory do off branded guitars at all?

i have seen some examples of the earlier pickups listed on the site you linked, some even use the cover to hide a single coil underneath!

the difference i see with my pickups is although they have the flat pole pieces and grey sheathed lead like the early examples, but the cover is soldered on rather than sealed by the potting lengthwise along the back of the pickup.

i was thinking this could be some sort of small production run to use up leftovers around the factory?

 

[JDZ]

Body shape does look like Fujigen. F-holes as well. Cavity route doesn't.

Should pull some pots to try and date it.

 

[Axeman16]

just took a look with my little mirror all the pots have solder over all the codes. all i could see was one code starting with 27

full size pots, green chicklet caps, all grey pvc wire

 

[JDZ]

Doesn't look anything like Tokai routes, nor body shape.
Tokai made guitars for others at different times, I know Burny late 70's and Greco early 90's.

I know of two Tokai made Greco 335's from 90's, I have one.

Fujigen was making semi hollow body for Greco from at least '77 - I have w/ f-hole tag showing.

I see the red dot in the corner of your pickups like the early Maxon's had and also the potting around the pole pieces/screws.

I've done alot of research on vintage MIJ 335's. Had to get my hands on them to document - Tokai, Greco (Fujigen and Tokai), early Navigators, Yamahas 77-84, Burny (multiple factories) and Vesta Graham. Gone over probably 30 of them at this point.

 

[JDZ]

No way to know for sure, common pots often used by different manufacturers for Burny's 27 would be YM, so could be '82 and 7 is August (Jan is 0).

 

[JDZ]

Here's a pot in a Burny 345 - took it with an inspection mirror.

96 = YM = '89 July (Jan is 0)
Route on this is Dyna Gakki, which corresponds to when they were making guitars for Burny (started in '87)

 

[Axeman16]

i appreciate all of your insight.

id really like to remove the covers from the pickups to take a look, but im worried they could be bobbin-less like some ive seen with the flat pole pieces.

id also like to rewire it with cts/switchcraft stuff and proper wire, clean the old pots and get the codes..but god do i hate wiring a 335 haha.

I was told the mahogany center block could make it based on a 58 335 and the laminated neck could point towards fuji gen thats why i mentioned it earlier.

when i had the mirror in earlier the 2 codes were opposite sides of the pot casing not stacked like in yours, there was a red dot on the bridge vol and a black dot on the corresponding tone pot....ill probably have to take it all out to get any really good info from them they all have a nice enough sized glob of solder to cover anything useful, nice soldering work however.

 

[JDZ]

Look at any of the Greco's in 80's and you see the red dot on volume and black on tone pots.

Three piece maple necks, Greco did through the 70's as they were mostly copying how Gibson made them at the time.

In '80 when they went to Super Real they went to one piece neck. I do have an SA 700 '81 model with '82 serial number that has three piece neck, but it is a copy of late 70's Gibson with coil split, but does have a stop tail piece.

I 'think' Gibson was using Maple on the center block in '58.

One's I know used Mahogany for center block are Navigator (79 & 80), Vesta Graham (a bit different though), a Burny 345 I have from '95.

 

[Axeman16]

hmm very interesting. it does look very similar to the sa 700s i see on google, was starting to lean towards fujigen but the mahogany center block throws everything off.

the lack of an open book headstock and an inlay could indicated it was assembled after the lawsuit happened, perhaps body and neck produced before since it specs as late 70s? the tuners truss rod cover bridge and pickups dont fit that timeline though unless they were just lying around coincidentally.

the sa 700s look to have adjustable bridge posts aswell, however the bridge appears common to the aria pro 2 es 700. greco sa 550 looks very similar as well but im reading that it did not have a center block.

 

[Axeman16]

ive also just come across these photos on the tokai forum, this guitar has the same pots caps and grey sheathed wire, the switch in my guitar is a switchcraft clone. pickups look the same bridge is the same but mine is stamped tokiwa on the back, different tuners

ES335

18 new photos added to shared album

photos.google.com

also came across a small post where some one confidently posted "Memphis guitars built in the '80's were made in the Fuji-Gen gakki factory(Ibanez). They were a sub-brand of Ibanez and made alongside of Greco and Ibanez."

 

[Axeman16]

also comparing the pickups to the link you provided earlier, it is strange the baseplates of my pickups arent engraved with maxon as well as the smaller 6 digit stamp, everything else matches the pre u-1000 shots.

also not sure if this of importance but the pots are long shaft and the switch is also long.

 

[warmachine]

You might want to do an ebay completed search for: matsumoku 335, fujigen 335, mij 335, or just 335 copy. Again you can never count on the seller being accurate on their descriptions, but I find ebay completed results to be a great tool to find similarities and sometimes accurate history.

Also you can do a search for: Memphis guitar -gibson

The minus gibson part is important cause most results in recent years for Memphis bring up Gibson’s memphis model.

 

[Roxy13]

thanks, ill check it out.


TO MOD - The other single cuts forum needs a sub forum for other vintage mij guitars. anyone who knows anything about japanese guitars hangs out in that part of the forum, hence why any mij related content is usually posted there and usually ends up getting moved to this forum.

I asked for one but was ignored. I even had a catchy title "Other Than Singlecuts".

Maybe we could ask again.

 

[paruwi]

TO MOD - The other single cuts forum needs a sub forum for other vintage mij guitars. anyone who knows anything about japanese guitars hangs out in that part of the forum, hence why any mij related content is usually posted there and usually ends up getting moved to this forum.

of course it gets moved to the 'other guitars' section when it's not a 'Other Single Cut'
Those who knows anything about MiJ guitars are not locked to this one subforum

and what's with the modern (non vintage) MiJ guitars ?
and I hope other single Cuts made outside of Japan are still allowed,
or should there be another subforum for those ?

I asked for one but was ignored. I even had a catchy title "Other Than Singlecuts".

Maybe we could ask again.

Then do it in the 'Front-Desk' section and tag the admin

Mods can't create new Subforums.

 

[Axeman16]

except that the sub heading of other single cuts reads "Tokai, Burny, Greco, replicas, etc"

 

[Roxy13]

I did put it in the front desk area. It was largely ignored

 

[paruwi]

except that the sub heading of other single cuts reads "Tokai, Burny, Greco, replicas, etc"

With the Headline 'Other Single-Cuts'

End of this discussion here in this thread !