In your opinion, when baby boomers are out, who will be the future burst buyers?

IGRocker

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So how many vintage bursts can we put you down for and how will you be paying? :thumb:

Probably none at the rate I am spending money on my truck and '79 Firebird right now! :laugh2:

Maybe when I win the lottery.... Lol
 

Fuelish

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Nobody....we're all dead....there is a very short so-called "future"
 

DHBucker

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I believe there will always be a market for bursts as others have mentioned, so I won't belabor the point. I will say my '90 Standard, 61 MM, 2009 FB V, and 93 hummingbird are more than I could have asked for. Love the bursts still but will never own one.
 

Bill Hicklin

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Increasingly, future Burst owners will be non-American and possibly non-European, as guitars get exported but then barred from returning by CITES.
 

jerry47

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My dad played guitar.

I play guitar.

My kids play guitars.

My grandkids play guitars.

It's a non-issue. I think guitar players will be around until the sun burns out.
I agree with this.
 

Actinic

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Increasingly, future Burst owners will be non-American and possibly non-European, as guitars get exported but then barred from returning by CITES.

Is this urban legend?

The APHIS said “it is also important to note that both (the Department of Justice and the Fish and Wildlife Service) have issued statements that citizens traveling with their musical instruments are not an enforcement priority.”

For guitar owners, exotic-wood travel threat lifted

Just carry a notarized statement from the seller that the guitar was authenticated to be a 195X Gibson Les Paul, which was manufactured pre-Lacey act. Make sure Joe Ganzler is not the appraiser of the guitar. Lol. A letter from George Gruhn, with his phone number, would probably suffice.

Flying in a private jet will expedite your clearance through customs.
 

smcgov

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I think Bursts will remain at current prices for a long time due to their actual scarcity... other vintage guitars will decrease in value as baby boomers age and guitar playing decreases in popularity.
 

Bill Hicklin

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Is this urban legend?



For guitar owners, exotic-wood travel threat lifted

Just carry a notarized statement from the seller that the guitar was authenticated to be a 195X Gibson Les Paul, which was manufactured pre-Lacey act. Make sure Joe Ganzler is not the appraiser of the guitar. Lol. A letter from George Gruhn, with his phone number, would probably suffice.

Flying in a private jet will expedite your clearance through customs.

However,

“If the wood is made into a musical instrument and the owner of the instrument travels internationally and re-enters the country with the instrument as part of his or her personal baggage, that owner would not need to submit a Lacey Act declaration for the instrument.” only applies to private travel with an instrument among one's personal effects; it would nnot apply to the international sale of an instrument.

And it *doesn't matter* if the guitar was made pre-Lacey Act (and it wasn't anyway, the Act dates from 1910 or so) Unlike CITES, which has grandfather provisions, the amended Lacey Act makes no age exceptions for its (impossible) documentation requirements, even that ancient Egyptian mummy case you picked up in Cairo. Pull out your Les Paul- can you tell in what country the mahogany/rosewood/maple were harvested? Can you document it? With certifications from the government of each country involved? No? Tough cookies......
 

Actinic

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In 1960, the Brazilian rosewood tree was not an endangered species according to the Lacey act of 1900 or 1907. What you are quoting is a misapplication of the law, and constitutes an ex post facto interpretation. If you read the text of the law as summarized in USC 3374/Forfeiture, then CBP could even confiscate a Boeing 787:

(2) All vessels, vehicles, aircraft, and other equipment used to aid in the importing, exporting, transporting, selling, receiving, acquiring, or purchasing of fish or wildlife or plants in a criminal violation of this chapter for which a felony conviction is obtained shall be subject to forfeiture to the United States if (A) the owner of such vessel, vehicle, aircraft, or equipment was at the time of the alleged illegal act a consenting party or privy thereto or in the exercise of due care should have known that such vessel, vehicle, aircraft, or equipment would be used in a criminal violation of this chapter, and
(B) the violation involved the sale or purchase of, the offer of sale or purchase of, or the intent to sell or purchase, fish or wildlife or plants.

On the subject of personal guitars (from the Lacey Act FAQ, 2013):

32. Do I have to declare hand carried items such as passenger baggage?

Currently, the Lacey Act Plant and Plant Product Declaration is only required for products imported into the United Sates as a Formal Entry. Items in passenger baggage or personal items travelling with a person do not require a declaration. For example, if you are travelling with your personal guitar, you are not required to declare the plant material in the guitar. It should be noted that there may be other requirements associated with the international movement of musical instruments, such as the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) or the U.S. Endangered Species Act (ESA), depending on the species that make up the instrument. If you have questions regarding CITES or ESA, please contact U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service at [email protected]

I will admit that the law is an arse, at times, but let us not get carried away with over-interpretation. If you know of any Burst, or any other 1950's Gibson guitar with a Brazilian rosewood fingerboard, that was seized by CBP as a result of the amendment (2008) to the Lacey Act, please feel free to post such an enforcement action.
 

Bill Hicklin

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Again you're rather mistaking what I was saying. While there is an enforcement exemption for personal items, that does *not* apply to the international sale of an instrument. Nor does the Act's documentation requirement confine itself to endangered species, but to all non-domestic plant and animal species whatsoever.

Moreover, although it isn't the law now, I predict that in a generation or so BRW will be as contraband as ivory, treated as something akin to heroin (except harder to get a license for).
 

Eball92

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Prices for bursts will never go down. As a 23 year old run of the mill dude, Ill never own one. Hell, as it is, I could put a down payment on a home for the money I could buy a Classic burst for. Sad really. I love all things old, particularly from the 50s-70s eras. But I doubt Ill own anything older than a 90s model. Sure I got my skylark amp, but that was a rare find in my area at the time and they dont go for that much anyway.

Thats okay, I guess if I never play one, I dont know what Im missing, so it doesnt matter so much. I can dream though...
 

grayd8

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Thinking about buying a vintage burst and want to have you thoughts about who the future burst buyers will be, say in the next 50 years.

A part from Joe Bonamassa, there are no les paul guitar hero's like slash was in the 90thies. I personally grew up on Apetite for destruction and discovered bursts via Slash and then Clapton, Jimmy page and others. It's quite sad but the golden guitar hero era is over and i'm really curious to have your thoughts about how bursts will be seen in the future.

(i'm quite pessimistic about rock music in the future; after grunge, it all looks like disneyland pop music)

I call BS, and give you Taylor Swift.
It might not be Rock, but she has my granddaughters interested in playing.
taylor-swift-red-tour-014.jpg


Anyway I've heard this narrative before, then came Slash. They say rock is dead but the Eagles can take how long, a 35 year old song they forgot about to number one on the singles chart in 2007.

I was in Jimmy Johns Saturday and the 19 year old guy in the back was playing air guitar to hotel California.

Maybe the question shouldn't be whether rock is dead, but what the current bands are doing wrong.
 

sws1

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Maybe the question shouldn't be whether rock is dead, but what the current bands are doing wrong.

If you could get the "music industry" out of the way, I'm sure we'd see a lot more varieties of music out there. Unfortunately, the majority of most people's days are being bombarded with the music that the industry wants you to hear.

It's at these points in time, when something really fresh comes along and blows the doors wide open. Unfortunately, the last big 'shift' was probably caused by a guy with a turntable, rather than a guitar. And the 'shifts' are coming farther apart.
 

LeftyF2003

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At the prices we're talking about maybe this guy?

Dr-Sulaiman-Al-Fahim-Port-001.jpg
 

Begd

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My 13 year old nephew loves Zeppelin, and he has an epiphone les Paul. Any guesses what his next big guitar purchase will be?
 

CharlieS

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I think Bursts will remain at current prices for a long time due to their actual scarcity... other vintage guitars will decrease in value as baby boomers age and guitar playing decreases in popularity.

I think that this is what will happen...in some ways, it has been happening. The generations of kids are changing. Most are engrossed in their iPhones and don't need to entertain themselves by playing guitar, street hockey, or other things we used to do as kids. IMO, demand will continue to drop off. There are economic reasons that will prevent many of the youth from attaining the same degree of success as the boomer generation. Some will succeed and be able to buy bursts and other great vintage gear, but I doubt that we will see nearly as many people with the disposable income to drop on a second-tier vintage guitar at the prices they were commanding even just a few years ago.
 

sws1

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I think that this is what will happen...in some ways, it has been happening. The generations of kids are changing. Most are engrossed in their iPhones and don't need to entertain themselves by playing guitar, street hockey, or other things we used to do as kids. IMO, demand will continue to drop off. There are economic reasons that will prevent many of the youth from attaining the same degree of success as the boomer generation. Some will succeed and be able to buy bursts and other great vintage gear, but I doubt that we will see nearly as many people with the disposable income to drop on a second-tier vintage guitar at the prices they were commanding even just a few years ago.

Yet the total number of guitars being sold every year continues to increase.
 

FUS44

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I call BS, and give you Taylor Swift......:shock:


Maybe the question shouldn't be whether rock is dead, but what the current bands are doing wrong.

Today's bands aren't doing anything wrong.

They just aren't playing the kind of rock most forumites think is cool.

Which to me, is cool.

Rock and roll enjoyed by three generations is a nice thought but isn't exactly too cool or rebellious anymore.
Grandma yells "Freebird" and means it? Weak.

People get all excited about the Strad vs. LP analogy, but I think as time goes on, the analogy will become more fitting. Gibson was a factory, but not exactly we have factories today. Those guitars had a good deal of handiwork to finish them.
I like the comparison due to the "history" of these guitars. The repairs etc. become part of history. I find the restos of old violins fascinating and see more and more similarities as time goes on. Headstock breaks and refins will be common place. Most old violins have been "made over" is some way, shape of form at this point. The same way many Les Pauls may need 75yr., hundred year maintenance. I wonder if the plastics will survive 100-200 yrs.
 

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