I'm shocked and amazed.

ELPOwner

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Red, I agree with mrblooze’s comment. I’m sure you’re looking for that consistency, too. Mass production has never been overly-consistent. Consumers should not let themselves be led into thinking that consistency in production can be achieved without costs having a say. I, personally, think that it doesn’t matter what the part looks like. Are you going to stop playing in your gig or around friends to remove the cover for the electronics to show off the wiring job? You may want to play more than work on your equipment. But, you just might have to.

Coming from working in-and-out of the auto industry for most of my life, performance has always been key for me. Consistency of that performance I would like to have, but know it does not come without my meddling a little with what was given to me.

I’m content, for now, with what gear I have. I have had limited dealings with companies in the guitar gear realm. I doubt that they are any different from who I have dealt with in the auto industry. At some time or another, they and their products and production sucks and I’ll have to work on it.
 

Red Planet

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Are you going to stop playing in your gig or around friends to remove the cover for the electronics to show off the wiring job? You may want to play more than work on your equipment. But, you just might have to.

Answer: NO
Question: Why not?
Answer: Because as I have repeatedly stated I'm looking for gigging performance NOT how it looks or whether it's vintage correct. Performance is what I seek nothing more or nothing less. If I were concerned about looks I'd leave it alone because it looks more like original but it does not perform how I want. I'm not sure why that concept is so hard to grasp. I can explain it for you but I can not understand it for you.
 

Red Planet

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I did learn this from the thread:

2009 they went to actually installing 50s wiring.
2019 they actually started using PIO caps.
This means the "True Historics" have 50s wiring but fake PIO caps.
That's very interesting as how some TH owners have decided they are the "most" authentic".

I think what I'm seeing here from Gibson is these details are a moving target on purpose.
It appears to me the marketing team is controlling the manufacturing.
Gibson appears to be putting out a consistent target sonically it just so happens that target is not made to cover many basses.
 

Red Planet

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From that period you'll also have linear taper pots, brass stoptail posts etc. 'Authentic' has been an ongoing, gradual process through the Historic line. While misleading or simply annoying to the consumer it also created an industry for replacement hardware/parts alongside pickups. Everyone can have what suits them best. Some are ok with modern wiring/linear pots for eg, others of us are not. As for Gibson, they've maintained buyer interest over the years and we're still here talking about it. Enjoy your R8.

Daz

Did they change to Audio taper pots and when?
 

ELPOwner

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Answer: NO
Question: Why not?
Answer: Because as I have repeatedly stated I'm looking for gigging performance NOT how it looks or whether it's vintage correct. Performance is what I seek nothing more or nothing less. If I were concerned about looks I'd leave it alone because it looks more like original but it does not perform how I want. I'm not sure why that concept is so hard to grasp. I can explain it for you but I can not understand it for you.
I read most of your comments and wanted to make sure, as I don’t remember reading more than you wanting consistency in your guitars. But, thinking any manufacturer would be super consistent (or repeatable) in their builds would be difficult for me to expect, with my knowledge of who I’ve had to deal with.
I read the thread to pick up useful information. And, I did get some good info. It makes me think of how hard it is to determine anything about another guitar brand I own.
 

ARandall

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I do realize my recent guitar purchase is an much older version of what they are now doing and things have changed. I was simply very surprised to see no 50s wiring in many R8s and the same level of components in the production models as the custom models.
Yep, its a wake-up that today's 'over-scrutiny' of every tiny (and often meaningless) aspect of a guitar's construction wasn't so important in times in the past. Back then people played the guitars more, and spent less time debating their accuracy on forums.
 

Dazza

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Did they change to Audio taper pots and when?
Yes, I believe it was 2009 Historics switched to Audio taper and 50' wiring.

The type of pot and its function has been overlooked for decades. Since the addition of pedals, then channel switching amps and preamps there's been generations of guitar players who change their gain & tones with their feet. Many believe all guitar pots should be on 10 for the 'best' tone. Often having no use for a tone knob. Unless you take the old school approach to playing, using all guitar knobs as they were intended, 'to adjust tone and output balance' the type of pot and wiring method is moot. For me a linear volume pot is workable, though not my choice, but a linear tone pot is useless as it only works abruptly between 0 and around 3.

Daz
 

Red Planet

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Yep, its a wake-up that today's 'over-scrutiny' of every tiny (and often meaningless) aspect of a guitar's construction wasn't so important in times in the past. Back then people played the guitars more, and spent less time debating their accuracy on forums.


Actually that's not true at all. I and many others like me have been tearing into guitars, amps, and pedals since we got started. In 1975 I put together from a box of parts a real 1952 P Bass. In 1976 I installed a Dimarzio into a Les Paul custom, in 1979 I removed the pickups out of stock Les Paul Custom, disassembled them, rewired them four conductor, and installed coil tap switching. And many many more projects like that to amps, pedals, building pedal boards. The only difference now is you can discuss this with more people, find out information faster, and post it for others to see on the internet.
 
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Red Planet

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Yes, I believe it was 2009 Historics switched to Audio taper and 50' wiring.

The type of pot and its function has been overlooked for decades. Since the addition of pedals, then channel switching amps and preamps there's been generations of guitar players who change their gain & tones with their feet. Many believe all guitar pots should be on 10 for the 'best' tone. Often having no use for a tone knob. Unless you take the old school approach to playing, using all guitar knobs as they were intended, 'to adjust tone and output balance' the type of pot and wiring method is moot. For me a linear volume pot is workable, though not my choice, but a linear tone pot is useless as it only works abruptly between 0 and around 3.

Daz

Exactly you are understanding me. I'm wanting most of the control from the guitar alone. I have yet to put my finger on the exact culprit but these guitars are coming with pour functionality. If you never use the controls and have a plethora of pedals then you don't understand what all the fuss is about. If your looking for maximum flexibility from the guitar alone then you get it.

I'm looking for all the subtle nuances of brilliant clarity to raging bull by just adjusting my playing and the controls. Now part of this for the individual is dictated by the style of music one is playing. If your playing Welcome to the Jungle perhaps nuance is not something your looking for.

With my R8 stock I could get what I need from an active volume pedal or a volume cut pedal but I'm trying to get these features from the guitar.
 
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ARandall

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Actually that's not true at all. I and many others like me have been tearing into guitars, amps, and pedals since we got started. In 1975 I put together from a box of parts a real 1952 P Bass. In 1976 I installed a Dimarzio into a Les Paul custom, in 1979 I removed the pickups out of stock Les Paul Custom, disassembled them, rewired them four conductor, and installed coil tap switching. And many many more projects like that to amps, pedals, building pedal boards. The only difference now is you can discuss this with more people, find out information faster, and post it for others to see on the internet.
Thats tinkering.
Not what I was talking about at all.
 

tmgcustom

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If you would quit turning all those knobs and flipping all those switches on your guitars, you wouldn't have this problem, Mr. Planet sir... Remember, you too can suck equally on any guitar, just like I do... BTW, I just put some new pickups in my Hamer...
 

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Red Planet

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Im shoc
If you would quit turning all those knobs and flipping all those switches on your guitars, you wouldn't have this problem, Mr. Planet sir... Remember, you too can suck equally on any guitar, just like I do... BTW, I just put some new pickups in my Hamer...

Im shocked but I know someone that will take the old ones off your hands.
 

Red Planet

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0927211954.jpg

OK all you gnashers of teeth.

Bumble Bees out Green Hornets in!

.015 on the neck and .033 on the bridge the 33 made such a difference it yielded a perceived lowering of volume, I raised the pup up a little to compensate.

This made a nice compromise between what TMG did to my Standard 50s by replacing everything and what a phenomenal thick rock monster the R8 is. Gave a little more zing to the neck PUP and allows the controls to work a little better. You cant tell it from the pics but I did the full meal deal on the 50s wiring by changing the lug used on the tone pots as well as moving the cap lug.
 
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