Illegal Aliens get "state rates' in california schools

TeleDog

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Sending illegal immigrants back to their home country instead of offering them all the benefits of US Citizenship is equal to putting them in concentration camps and ovens? :wow: Now that's just weird.:cool:

Weird? How about having a person die of cancer without any pain medication inside a detention center, just because hell, it's a waste of money...

It happened, and nobody stood up to defend that woman because she was an "illegal". So death or extreme suffering? I'd say death is a more humane solution.

THAT IS THE REALITY, wether you want to admit it or not, that's why international observers are coming to evaluate ICE detention policies, that alone should be cause for concern. They're human, like you and me, maybe be mexican but that's completely irrelevant in my book.
 

Harmony

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Don't take my post out of context. I was providing a specific example in which an illegal would be entitled to a U.S. document. There was no intent on my part to apply the reasoning of that argument to higher education.

I wasn't trying to do that zplapplap, sorry if it seemed that way. What I was trying to do, was make it clearer, as those that do not know, may believe that was for higher education too.
Many do assume it applies to any education.

KMK mentioned above about how he had to show SS# and Citizenship for college, schools don't require that.
 

Blackie

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Sending illegal immigrants back to their home country instead of offering them all the benefits of US Citizenship is equal to putting them in concentration camps and ovens? :wow: Now that's just weird.:cool:

OH no..........if we send them back they will just return............thus
 

kmk108

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I wasn't trying to do that zplapplap, sorry if it seemed that way. What I was trying to do, was make it clearer, as those that do not know, may believe that was for higher education too.
Many do assume it applies to any education.

KMK mentioned above about how he had to show SS# and Citizenship for college, schools don't require that.

Hell, they needed to know my parent's SSN too.
 

kernelofwisdom

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Friend, you pay property taxes no matter what you do or where you live. If you rent, they're reflected in the rent. And if they don't pay income tax, it's because they can't or because they're some fishy thing going on. If there's some unwillingness to pay tax, then the person is subject to sanction, but the same applies to anybody else, legal or otherwise.

Just don't go place everybody in the same bag. IRC affords certain protections against disclosure precisely because of this fact, they DO pay taxes.

I agree more or less on the property tax. But having been a reasonably large construction employer, you can "suspect" an illegal right off b/c they take enough exemptions to have no income tax withheld. They don't intend to file, so they don't want any, or minimal, withholding.

So, illegals often don't pay any or their share of income tax from what I've seen.

I'm not an illegal basher though. These people take great risks just for the opportunity to work. That is admirable. Most want the chance to work hard. We'll teach them how to live off the system and beat that old work ethic out of them at some point though.

At some point the government should create a status for these people that while perhaps not citizenship would at least present the opportunity for a reasonable legal method of being here. The reality of the free (and government driven) market overtook our immigration law just like the reality of the economy is overtaking our fantasy budgets.
 

zplapplap

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Oh geeze.. here we go with the "innocent children" crap...

Same rule applies, just a smaller slingshot.

The children are the responsibility of the parent, if the PARENT brought his child with him illegaly to this county, then the child should go with him legally back to his county of origin. I shouldn't be paying to educated that child because his parents comitted a CRIME by sneaking into this country...

Are you in California? :laugh2: What exactly are you paying for?

Of course the child should go back if the parent is deported for being here illegally. Who the hell ever suggested otherwise? :rolleyes:
 

snaredrum

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anyway, enough of the back and forth - when do i get my trailer in arizona?
 

zplapplap

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I wasn't trying to do that zplapplap, sorry if it seemed that way. What I was trying to do, was make it clearer, as those that do not know, may believe that was for higher education too.
Many do assume it applies to any education.

KMK mentioned above about how he had to show SS# and Citizenship for college, schools don't require that.

Thanks. I see where you are coming from. You correctly point out that it would be a mistake to argue that Plyer v. Doe applies to anything other than primary and secondary education.
 

KSG_Standard

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Race, nationality and religion have nothing to do with any of this. The Federal Gov't has a constitutional requirement to secure our borders and to protect American citizen's lives and property. Period.

If you want to help the poor people of Mexico, go south of the border and help them on your own. Wanting secure borders and enforcement of existing immigration laws and or stronger laws...that's not crazy, wrong or irrational.

The idea of open borders and granting all the rights and privileges of American citizens to illegal immigrants is irrational, wrong and crazy. IMHO.
 

TeleDog

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I agree more or less on the property tax. But having been a reasonably large construction employer, you can "suspect" an illegal right off b/c they take enough exemptions to have no income tax withheld. They don't intend to file, so they don't want any, or minimal, withholding.

So, illegals often don't pay any or their share of income tax from what I've seen.

I'm not an illegal basher though. These people take great risks just for the opportunity to work. That is admirable. Most want the chance to work hard. We'll teach them how to live off the system and beat that old work ethic out of them at some point though.

At some point the government should create a status for these people that while perhaps not citizenship would at least present the opportunity for a reasonable legal method of being here. The reality of the free (and government driven) market overtook our immigration law just like the reality of the economy is overtaking our fantasy budgets.

Oh I agree there.

But like I said, evading the tax "willfully" is a crime and that crime alone bans admissibility as an alien. Maybe they should know that as well.

The problem here, a lot of that is done by employers too because they don't want to expose the fact they're hiring people unlawfully.

A vicious cycle if you ask me but when it comes to punishment, only one side takes the heat, even kids who did nothing to deserve this.

And I'll say it again, amnesty is NOT a solution but an invitation to massive fraud. What's needed is flexibility within the law to promote family unity (in cases involving citizens) and for humanitarian reasons. But I still believe people who do commit crime should be prosecuted, sorry, but I believe in that firmly.
 

Blackie

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Race, nationality and religion have nothing to do with any of this. The Federal Gov't has a constitutional requirement to secure our borders and to protect American citizen's lives and property. Period.

If you want to help the poor people of Mexico, go south of the border and help them on your own. Wanting secure borders and enforcement of existing immigration laws and or stronger laws...that's not crazy, wrong or irrational.

The idea of open borders and granting all the rights and privileges of American citizens to illegal immigrants is irrational, wrong and crazy. IMHO.

I agree.......secure the borders.......then we may discuss other matters.
 

TeleDog

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I agree.......secure the borders.......then we may discuss other matters.

+1,000

But may I suggest one thing? I see nothing wrong with deploying the military there, but "armed groups" and vigilante justice is not the answer. People should be trained to deal with this, and paid accordingly I would suggest.

Oh, and I think more high-tech surveillance is also in order, specialized technology.
 

zplapplap

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Geez man...just come out on your feeling about illegal immigration...It'd make everything so much easier :laugh2:


I hear ya. :)

I'm against it. I'm the child of a legal immigrant. He had to wait his turn and entered with his family legally.

As I said earlier, sovereign nations have a right to dictate the terms to which people will be allowed to immigrate. I believe in that and believe that the law should be enforced.

What we have s a situation where the law is not being enforced. Both major political parties have powerful constituencies that are interested in the law not being enforced. As a result, we have porous borders and children are caught in the middle.

My perspective is pinned to my regarding children differently than their parents. I am more sympathetic to those good productive children raised here that would otherwise get a raw deal. I don't want to overstate it. We're simply talking about tuition. They aren't being categorically denied entrance to the universities and colleges. We can decide as states and as a nation how we want to deal with them. But I think that some of the attitudes in this thread are callous and unjustifiably hostile. Personally, I don't get the anger. We're not simply talking about illegal immigrants who came of their own volition (though they could be swept up into this as beneficiaries). Since this law generally impacts undocumented kids that grew up in the US, participated, cleared the hurdles, and achieved a measure of success, I am less inclined to deal with them as severly as their parents.

For anyone wondering what my point of interest is in this in-state tuition issue:
I'm a former California resident, my wife was born and raised there, and we're both active UC Davis alumni. Neither of us are illegals. :laugh2:
 

zplapplap

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Race, nationality and religion have nothing to do with any of this. The Federal Gov't has a constitutional requirement to secure our borders and to protect American citizen's lives and property. Period.

If you want to help the poor people of Mexico, go south of the border and help them on your own. Wanting secure borders and enforcement of existing immigration laws and or stronger laws...that's not crazy, wrong or irrational.

The idea of open borders and granting all the rights and privileges of American citizens to illegal immigrants is irrational, wrong and crazy. IMHO.

Did anyone in this thread proffer any of these points? :laugh2:
 

TeleDog

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And for the record.. There's no bill, and has never been one, that would afford any illegal the same privileges of U.S. Citizenship... not even close. Those bills wouldn't even grant them the same privileges of legal residents, and they are very restricted when you compare them to those or a regular citizen.
 

dave294

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kmk, you posts completely fail to differentiate between the actions of illegals the innocent conduct of their children. The spouting off of the usual platitudes about illegal immigration is disappointing when those impacted by this decision are the CHILDREN of those who broke the law to enter this country. Great. Illegals broke the law. That's groundbreaking stuff. Really.

This issue arises when an undocumented child, despite their lack of legal status, does what's expected of them, graduates from a California high school, and earns grades high enough for entrance to UC, Cal State, or a community college. All they did was everything that was asked of them. Don't tell me that some kid that crosses the border with their custodial parent as a damn toddler is a criminal or that the person is breaking the law. It's complete bullshit. We can deport them, but it won't be because they're criminals. In the instance of a young child, the parents broke the law and the children did nothing more or less than what any dependent child would do. They did what they were told and went with their parents.

I have no problem with your being against the decision of the California Supreme Court, but don't tell me they're breaking the law. You want to make an argument about taxes, equitable distribution of resources, or whatever then fine. But calling these kids criminals is inaccurate, unjust, and devoid of compassion for good kids (mostly) that are victims of circumstance.


:thumb: you said it.

Please, someone explain to me why it's ok for them to be here illegally, just because they want a better life? Sad to say, but America can't provide everyone in the world with a better life. We don't have the resources to "take care" of legal citizens. Why put the burden to provide non-Americans with a better life. Worry about ourselves first. It has nothing to do with Xenophobia. it has nothing to do with racism. These people are coming here and taking advantage of Americans. Businesses are also taking advantage of everyone else. The sad thing is that I don't think it's going to change. The big businesses have Congress in their pocket, and to them, wealth speaks louder than the law.

i agree with you, we cant take everyone in, and a lot do wanna just live off the government; ive witnessed this first hand; i still dont think a kid who grew up here should be punished mostly when he/she wants to go to college
It is our past time to beat up on those that are defenseless......pfft...as if we are not all
mostly immigrant contrived to these parts.

Stop it..........stop taking the bait of the xenophobic politicians that shirk their real duty
to address the actual problem of the big business that invites these workers with open arms that they can treat like garbage.

The people taking you're resources are not so much the illeagal folks as it is the businesses
that have fought tooth and nail any actual consequences of their duplicitous practices.

Stop it......stop letting them get away with it. They are 99% to blame for our failure to
correct this ongoing problem.

Stop it..........stop demonizing these folks just trying to make it day to day.

stop the companies from hiring them, they'll have no reason to come. what pisses me off is when just like you said immigrants are demonized. if any of these people were in the same position, they would do the same....leave your country, leave your family, cross the desert to give your kids a better future. you say illegal, i say brave.of course i understand, dont expect to get the same rights as an american citizens, you are breaking the law. i'll go as far as to even say they shouldnt even get free healthcare or nothing like that....but again stop the business from hiring, problem solved.


Hey asshat........ some of those illegals ARE aming to kill you.... Not just terrorists either... ms-13 ring a bell?

Legal residents smoking joints and dropping out... they can hang off the back of a garbage truck and tip cans for a living, if they don't want to do that, they can starve for all I care.

People having sex and spreading diseases, unless they are rapists, were INVITED in.... (and i don't mean to the country) rapists need to be castrated... Illegal Alien rapists need to be castrated, loaded into a slingshot and flung into shark infested waters before the wound heals.

Veterans comming back who can't get jobs are not using the tools laid out before them. I am 100% for veterans preference. If they got injured in their service, they damn well be getting disability from the government.

Any other great points to make??? :rolleyes:

ha, yes immigrants are out to get you:rolleyes:

your the one who started this whole post. it turned into a pro immigration vs no immigration argument.

i agree with a lot of the anti immigration people. they cant let everyone in, illegal immigrants shouldnt get benifits. not everyone should be legalized.

but your complaining about kids who grew up in america just like you, not being able to Pay for college? because they werent born here

i got an idea, how about instead of deporting immigrants going to college we deport ignorant assholes?....oh but then you would have to go
 

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