Illegal Aliens get "state rates' in california schools

Blackie

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Please, someone explain to me why it's ok for them to be here illegally, just because they want a better life? Sad to say, but America can't provide everyone in the world with a better life. We don't have the resources to "take care" of legal citizens. Why put the burden to provide non-Americans with a better life. Worry about ourselves first. It has nothing to do with Xenophobia. it has nothing to do with racism. These people are coming here and taking advantage of Americans. Businesses are also taking advantage of everyone else. The sad thing is that I don't think it's going to change. The big businesses have Congress in their pocket, and to them, wealth speaks louder than the law.

You answered the question. It is OK because Americans make money from illeagals they can control , pay less than citizens, and treat like slaves.
 

zplapplap

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Technically they did. If they're here illegally, they're breaking the law. :cool:

kmk, you posts completely fail to differentiate between the actions of illegals the innocent conduct of their children. The spouting off of the usual platitudes about illegal immigration is disappointing when those impacted by this decision are the CHILDREN of those who broke the law to enter this country. Great. Illegals broke the law. That's groundbreaking stuff. Really.

This issue arises when an undocumented child, despite their lack of legal status, does what's expected of them, graduates from a California high school, and earns grades high enough for entrance to UC, Cal State, or a community college. All they did was everything that was asked of them. Don't tell me that some kid that crosses the border with their custodial parent as a damn toddler is a criminal or that the person is breaking the law. It's complete bullshit. We can deport them, but it won't be because they're criminals. In the instance of a young child, the parents broke the law and the children did nothing more or less than what any dependent child would do. They did what they were told and went with their parents.

I have no problem with your being against the decision of the California Supreme Court, but don't tell me they're breaking the law. You want to make an argument about taxes, equitable distribution of resources, or whatever then fine. But calling these kids criminals is inaccurate, unjust, and devoid of compassion for good kids (mostly) that are victims of circumstance.
 

kmk108

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You answered the question. It is OK because Americans make money from illeagals they can control , pay less than citizens, and treat like slaves.

Businesses can, but I don't. My life, personally, is no different with illegal immigrants here than with them not here. I don't control any illegal immigrants, I pay no one to do work for me, and I sure as hell treat no one like slaves.
 

Scooter2112

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The disease is it PAYS to be an illegal immigrant. To cure the disease, we have to create an environment where there is not payoff for them, nor those who hire them. And giving them state residency status is ONE payoff for them.

Plus one.
 

kmk108

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kmk, you posts completely fail to differentiate between the actions of illegals the innocent conduct of their children. The spouting off of the usual platitudes about illegal immigration is disappointing when those impacted by this decision are the CHILDREN of those who broke the law to enter this country. Great. Illegals broke the law. That's groundbreaking stuff. Really.

This issue arises when an undocumented child, despite their lack of legal status, does what's expected of them, graduates from a California high school, and earns grades high enough for entrance to UC, Cal State, or a community college. All they did was everything that was asked of them. Don't tell me that some kid that crosses the border with their custodial parent as a damn toddler is a criminal or that the person is breaking the law. It's complete bullshit. We can deport them, but it won't be because they're criminals. In the instance of a young child, the parents broke the law and the children did nothing more or less than what any dependent child would do. They did what they were told and went with their parents.

I have no problem with your being against the decision of the California Supreme Court, but don't tell me they're breaking the law. You want to make an argument about taxes, equitable distribution of resources, or whatever then fine. But calling these kids criminals is inaccurate, unjust, and devoid of compassion for good kids (mostly) that are victims of circumstance.

Ok, I get what you guys mean. The problem I have is that just because their parents came here successfully, even if it is illegal, they should be allowed to stay? Sorry, but that doesn't fly with me.
 

TeleDog

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It's not ok for anybody to come here illegally. But you don't know what happened, you don't know the details, and you don't know the reasons.

Many come here to run gangs and sell drugs, why? Simply because that's how the gangs want it, a complete blank with no record, a nobody they can control and manipulate.

Many come here because they don't have a choice. You think if they could go get a permit or something they would risk death crossing a desert?

It's a problem and amnesty is NOT the answer, you can't brand everybody the same and create a potentially risky problem. FLEXIBILITY should be given by law so the Attorney General can study certain cases and deal with them according to what's best for the society.

But in any case, taking it out on the kids is DESPOTIC and UNFAIR.
 

Scooter2112

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This issue arises when an undocumented child, despite their lack of legal status, does what's expected of them, graduates from a California high school, and earns grades high enough for entrance to UC, Cal State, or a community college. All they did was everything that was asked of them. Don't tell me that some kid that crosses the border with their custodial parent as a damn toddler is a criminal or that the person is breaking the law. It's complete bullshit. We can deport them, but it won't be because they're criminals. In the instance of a young child, the parents broke the law and the children did nothing more or less than what any dependent child would do. They did what they were told and went with their parents.

For you that seem to be OK with this, I think you're making two fatal flaws in your reasoning, in regards to those who want this stopped.

1.)Nobody's blaming the kids. Find the parents and deport them.
2.)Impose stiff penalties on businesses that hire them. This law is already on the books and you won't find any resistance from anyone here on it. Just enforce the freakin laws for pete's sake.
 

MATTM

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Those who become a legal citizen, learn the language, pay taxes like everyone else and abide by the laws and I've got no problem with. They should be afforded the same benefits as those born here.

Those who deviate from the above can go back to where they came from.
 

Blackie

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Businesses can, but I don't. My life, personally, is no different with illegal immigrants here than with them not here. I don't control any illegal immigrants, I pay no one to do work for me, and I sure as hell treat no one like slaves.

Well why are you all riled up then ? It is good for Business here more than it is bad for the economy. So get on the band wagon and come on over for the big win Son.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VHKpGJX29s[/ame]
 

zplapplap

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Ok, I get what you guys mean. The problem I have is that just because their parents came here successfully, even if it is illegal, they should be allowed to stay? Sorry, but that doesn't fly with me.

As a policy matter, I get what you're saying and I think that's a valid response. Sovereign nations retain the right to control who is allowed to immigrate, under what circumstances, and what conditions must be met for citizenship. I get that. I just cringe when good kids are labelled as criminals.

There is a reason why the U.S. Supreme Court, way back in 1982, took great care to refer the kids as "undocumented". It's not simply a throwaway P.C. term. At least it wasn't back then, and certainly not to the Supreme Court where those opinions are drafted with pin-point command of the language. The point was that the children didn't break the law. They have no legal status and they will eventually become illegal, but it would be wrong to stain them will a label of illegality in the absence of a criminal act.
 

H.E.L.Shane

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Dude, shut up. For real. There are worse problems than illegal immigrants trying to get an education. What about legal residents smoking joints and dropping out? What about veterans that come back and can't get jobs? What about people who have sex with everyone and pass around their STDs all over the place and even infect babies?

There is worse shit happening so quit your whining. It's not like your funding something aimed to kill you...

Hey asshat........ some of those illegals ARE aming to kill you.... Not just terrorists either... ms-13 ring a bell?

Legal residents smoking joints and dropping out... they can hang off the back of a garbage truck and tip cans for a living, if they don't want to do that, they can starve for all I care.

People having sex and spreading diseases, unless they are rapists, were INVITED in.... (and i don't mean to the country) rapists need to be castrated... Illegal Alien rapists need to be castrated, loaded into a slingshot and flung into shark infested waters before the wound heals.

Veterans comming back who can't get jobs are not using the tools laid out before them. I am 100% for veterans preference. If they got injured in their service, they damn well be getting disability from the government.

Any other great points to make??? :rolleyes:
 

spitfire

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I doubt anyone disagrees with the fact that we need to control immigration. But, the bottom line is that after the fact, especially years after the fact, it really makes no difference where the heck anyone came from. It really is just a label at that point.

As far as breaking the law, children brought into this country by their parents, certainly didn’t break the law. While they may be here illegally, to deny them an education is just plain stupid. They’re here, I’d rather have a well educated person (regardless of where they are from), than an uneducated one. The better educated everyone is, the better off we all will be.

And to argue that a person raised in the USA, but here illegally, should be deported back to a country they may know nothing about, may not speak the language, and may not even have family in is extremely cruel. And not only is it cruel it is pointless.

When you get right down to it, I don’t care where anyone came from, or their immigration status, if they are hard working and contribute (and most people do regardless of their immigration status), then I’m more than happy to have them here.

Again, of course we have to control immigration, but we don’t have to demonize illegal immigrants and treat them cruelly.
 

kmk108

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For you that seem to be OK with this, I think you're making two fatal flaws in your reasoning, in regards to those who want this stopped.

1.)Nobody's blaming the kids. Find the parents and deport them.
2.)Impose stiff penalties on businesses that hire them. This law is already on the books and you won't find any resistance from anyone here on it. Just enforce the freakin laws for pete's sake.

1) I did :sadwave:, but I've realized I was wrong
2) Sadly, I don't think that'll happen. Businesses will fight all they can, including paying off government leaders, to assure they can hire illegally.

Well why are you all riled up then ? It is good for Business here more than it is bad for the economy. So get on the band wagon and come on over for the big win Son.

I will not. It is ILLEGAL. It's a criminal offense. How is it good for the businesses that I frequent? How has my life been made better because of illegal immigration? This is the exact reason why I'm against illegal immigration. "If it helps me, screw the law. They're not doing anything anyway." :rolleyes:
 

TeleDog

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Those who become a legal citizen, learn the language, pay taxes like everyone else and abide by the laws and I've got no problem with. They should be afforded the same benefits as those born here.

Those who deviate from the above can go back to where they came from.

Exactly.

But if you grant a general "amnesty" of ANY kind, you're gonna have a huge mess to deal with, more fraud than you can imagine, and more problems than you can think of.

The only practical solution I can see, one that's fair, is an expansion of the waiver authority to allow the AG to grant certain "waivers" of particular provisions of law when doing so is in the best interests of the United States.

This is a problem because the law is rigid, and it has failed to adapt to the changing environment. Take plea bargains and prosecutorial discretion away from the law enforcement and you'll see the entire criminal system grind to a halt in less time than you can say ah.
 

Scooter2112

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but it would be wrong to stain them will a label of illegality in the absence of a criminal act.

Being here illegally IS a criminal act. Even though some don't want to accept that.
 

TeleDog

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I doubt anyone disagrees with the fact that we need to control immigration. But, the bottom line is that after the fact, especially years after the fact, it really makes no difference where the heck anyone came from. It really is just a label at that point.

As far as breaking the law, children brought into this country by their parents, certainly didn’t break the law. While they may be here illegally, to deny them an education is just plain stupid. They’re here, I’d rather have a well educated person (regardless of where they are from), than an uneducated one. The better educated everyone is, the better off we all will be.

And to argue that a person raised in the USA, but here illegally, should be deported back to a country they may know nothing about, may not speak the language, and may not even have family in is extremely cruel. And not only is it cruel it is pointless.

When you get right down to it, I don’t care where anyone came from, or their immigration status, if they are hard working and contribute (and most people do regardless of their immigration status), then I’m more than happy to have them here.

Again, of course we have to control immigration, but we don’t have to demonize illegal immigrants and treat them cruelly.

Brother, you just said it right. I wonder is Susana Martinez thinks the same way though... :hmm:
 

Harmony

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Here's one way.

The U.S. Supreme Court, almost three decades ago, ruled that public schools could NOT exclude a kid based on their lack of documents. Plyler v. Doe, 457 U.S. 202 (1982). This means, in absolute terms, until a future court reverses :)laugh2:), that the illegal immigrant kid anywhere in the U.S. has a RIGHT to attend public school and is ENTITLED to a diploma (a legal US document) upon completion of their course of study.

To make this clearer though, this is for Public school, not colleges. KMK said something earlier above, which is different to school education.

I don't know about CA and their different laws, but most colleges require proof of legal residency (whether visa, GC etc) before being accepted.
 

H.E.L.Shane

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Just because it's not the most pressing issue right now means it shouldn't be cared about at all? No, the children may have had no part in the decision to come here ILLEGALLY, but that doesn't change the fact that they're here ILLEGALLY.

Geez, what happened to the definition of ILLEGAL? Now it means, "well, you're not supposed to do it, but it's ok."

Thats my entire POINT....

there is no gray area, its black and white, you are either here legally or you are NOT... if you are NOT, then you need to go BACK, and try again, the RIGHT WAY.

If you are here illegally, why should one red cent of any legal citizens tax dollars be spent on you in any way except to throw you the hell out?
 

TeleDog

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Being here illegally IS a criminal act. Even though some don't want to accept that.

Really? PROVE IT. Find a section under Title 18 that says that. It's NOT a crime, some bills have tried to make it into a crime but the problems there are so many that they have all failed.

So, again, it's NOT a crime. JUMPING the border is a crime, but it's not a continuing offense either, and for most of those, the SOL has already run.

Think again, just like the Constitution, it is what it is and not what you want it to be.
 

kmk108

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Thats my entire POINT....

there is no gray area, its black and white, you are either here legally or you are NOT... if you are NOT, then you need to go BACK, and try again, the RIGHT WAY.

If you are here illegally, why should one red cent of any legal citizens tax dollars be spent on you in any way except to throw you the hell out?

And if you can't afford to get here the right way...that sucks, but sorry.
 

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