Ideal rate of twist (MLP firearms and shooting thread)

CB91710

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Roberteaux

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Fuck Rob.... I wish I had taken up reloading back before.... well, back before. Damn!

I am archiving all your goldmines of information, however. One day....
Hey, buddy-- very happy to know that you're enjoying some of this stuff I'm posting, even though you've not actually been involved in the same type of activities!

It's especially gratifying because we're both firearms aficionados... meaning that if I can write a piece that a guy not involved in my particular corner of that vastly variegated pursuit finds interesting in passing, I'm doing pretty damned good. As a writer, I try to at least be legible first, to possibly be entertaining secondly... and third, sometimes I try to actually maybe acquaint the reader with something they never messed with before.

***************​

When I went through the second phase of the SF q-course, which is all technical training, on Day One we were informed and advised to never, ever refer to ourselves as "firearms experts", as the field was so vast that no one human being had enough time or memory to know every-damned-thing there is to know about firearms.

"There ain't no true experts in the field-- not overall-- because there's just too damned much to know. So, you don't call yourself an expert, okay? We'll actually re-cycle you through training if we get wind of you using that word.", is what the TAC NCO had to say to us that day... ;)

Then he carried on to say that there were guys who were expert in some limited field of firearms technology-- same as you've got guys who are vascular surgeons, guys who are neurosurgeons, and so forth. They're expert in this, but not that... and they don't cross lines, because nobody can ever know ALL the shit there is to know when it comes to medicine.

And it's all the same with firearms, though there's probably a whole lot less to know there than what there is to know about medical science.

After that, every time we had a written test or a pop quiz, the question, "Are you a firearms expert?" appeared. If you answered "Yes", they'd cut your throat! :laugh2:

***************
So with me, it's mostly about the ammo. I do love to shoot... but to be honest with you, it gets kinda old. Got my first .22 rifle when I was 11 (I still have it!), and I've been shooting ever since.

But that ammo thing? Shit man... for some it's a fascinating pursuit... but for others, it's a dratted, time-consuming, tedious kind of thing to mess with.

And a man never knows how it's gonna hit him until he goes for it. That's the REALLY bad part... guys have spent hundreds tooling up, then they got going... and found out that they'd rather sit around watching paint dry, 'cause doing that is so much more exciting! :laugh2:

****************​

What I would say to you is the same thing I've said all along: if you're reloading strictly to save money, you might be doing it wrong unless, of course, you're a true, licensed, professionally-outfitted commercial producer of ammunition.

(But then, you'd really be doing it to make money, not to save money... :hmm:)

Regardless of the case, I say this because of the *time factor* spent messing with this shit... especially if you're running mostly old-school, non-automated equipment. My equipment is the most primitive shit out there... but then again, it's this kind of equipment that one uses to produce the highest-quality ammunition possible, without paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for genuine, commercial reloading equipment.

And at that, the hand-loader can actually out-do any commercial producer because we have the ability to literally tailor ammunition to an individual rifle, to produce greatest accuracy. This is something that a genuine factory literally cannot afford to bother with.

You look at all your top-class bench rest shooters, and you'll see this: they're all loading their own shit, blueprinted to serve their particular rifle, unless the rules entail the use of commercially-produced match-grade ammo only.

And then you better pray that your rifle likes the shit that you're being forced to use... which isn't always the case-- not even with match-grade factory ammunition.

***************​

You *will* save $$$, yes... even while loading the most common (and thus, least expensive) of all ammo types. For instance, you may recall that back when the market price for .223/5.56mm shit was pretty low-- like $200 plus change per thousand-- I was loading 'em at about $100 plus change.

That is, no matter what you reload or hand load, you *will* save money... so long as you don't start adding up how much money you might have made doing something else over the same period of time. So there's your trade-off.

HOWEVER, you really *can* save BIG if what you're loading up is not exactly as ubiquitous or popular as the mass-issued "military and police" cartridge types.

Example: at this moment in time, .338 Lapua Mag is going out the door as a factory cart for an average price of about $6.50 per pop. I'm saying, six-fifty gets you ONE cartridge! :shock:

I'm not gonna do the math on it, but I guarantee you that even with components being sky-high right now, I could load up .338 Lapua Mag for one hell of a lot less than that! :thumb:

Same with .300 Win Mag, which I do load for. Right now that stuff's selling for an average of about $4.00 per cartridge. But when I broke down my component prices for the stuff, I saw that I'm loading them up for more like:

$0.40 per brass cartridge
$0.30 per really big powder charge
$1.00 per magnum rifle primer
$0.50 per primo bullet

Which comes out to... about $2.25 per loaded cart. So, I save $1.75 per squeeze... which really adds up, if you shoot a lot of it.

Of course, the above calculation was actually made using today's prices. Because I stockpiled the shit so heavily back when the gettin' was really good, here's more like what I'm paying... for now, anyway... until I run out of my present inventory, that is:

$0.04 per brass cartridge
$0.10 per hot-ass powder charge
$0.29 per magnum rifle primer
$0.20 per primo bullet

And the grand total now is... $0.63 per cartridge. But again: that's if I use *just* the prices I paid for some of this shit before prices went through the ceiling. In reality, because I'm using a mixture of recently-purchased components along with old stock I've had for years, the price would probably come out to more like a buck a pop.

Still a three-buck savings... per pop! :thumb:

So the message here is this, Steve: if you shoot anything big, weird, or somehow out-of-the-norm in terms of cartridge popularity, then you do save really fat money. Like, if you were into .458 SOCOM or something like that, you'd probably save so much money that you'd offset the tool-up cost completely. Like, your equipment might literally pay for itself in near-record time.

My equipment has probably paid for itself 100 times over... but then, I've been doing this shit for four decades... ;)

***************
EVEN AT THAT, however, I'd say again: you'll never know how this shit might hit you, until you actually find yourself sitting there messing with it.

So... what I'd say to you is this: you're a member of what seems like a very active firearms range-- right? You're even an RSO, IIRC... :hmm:

Well, for sure there is somebody who is also a member and is into reloading. What you need to do is ask around, identify guys who do their own loading, and then pick the one who seems least like some sort of asshole and ask him if you might some day observe him in action.

Most guys won't mind that at all. I've got more than one friend who showed up just to sit around in my garage and drink beer while I was stuffing cartridges together, and after a fashion a couple of the more regular visitors got to where they were helping me do this shit. Like, I'd have them charging cases while I went ahead and stuck a bullet in there and crimped the case they just loaded with powder...

Which turned into a couple who started buying their own components, and using my gear while I oversaw their operation and helped them out. The two guys who went that far with it finally did buy their own reloading equipment and they're still at it. But there were a few who realized that this was nothing they'd personally want to do, even if it was fun to sit around and watch me do it. :p

I reckon I saved a bunch of guys some money, a little bit of frustration, and a whole lot of time.


***************
But anyway: I wrote this up just to let you know that I'm very gratified that you do enjoy reading about some of this reloading shit. It really is a fascinating pursuit-- for some!

My only concern in your case would simply be that you went there and meh: it sucked. Because for some guys, that is precisely how the work entailed hits them. :laugh2:

Thanks again, pal! :)

--R :thumb:
 
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SteveC

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Yea Rob -- I really dig your stuff!!!!


I shoot mostly .223/5.56, 9mm, .22lr, and 12ga (7.5/8 shot). I do shoot some .38sp and .357, but not anywhere near the quantity of any of the other round types. I never really gave serious consideration to reloading anything other than the 12ga.

When I was a kid around 10yo, I remember going to my cousin's farm in upstate PA (Mahanoy City) to shoot. It was the best. We literally put soda and beer cans on fence rails and shot them off with 22's from a Ruger rifle and an old, rusty S&W .38spl revolver.

Once and a while, they would also let me shoot their deer guns... one was a lever action .30-30. But, we never shot that gun a lot. The also had a .30-06 bolt gun that just kicked my tiny, little ass. Another one that was only a few rounds.

The thing I loved most was that they had a hand thrower for clays. No shit... you flung it like hitting a backhand shot in tennis and it would release the spring and 'throw' the clay out 20-25 yards. I remember doing that until my shoulder hurt so bad from the recoil of the 12ga, and my other arm was numb from throwing. LOL

The best part was, after we were through shooting, we policed up the empties and went back to the barn. In there we reloaded replacement rounds (other than .22s) for what we shot. My job was to clean the hulls & brass, push out the primers and sort them.

It was fascinating to a little kid. We were making ammo!

Who knows, one day maybe I'll do that on my own.
 
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Roberteaux

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Whoops... just spotted a mathematical error I made up there in Post #13724... :facepalm:

The mistake had to do with the price of primers. I realized a few minutes ago that I'd listed the current price of a primer as being $1.00 per... which is really wrong. Instead, it's more like the average price right now is about $0.10 cents, as primers are going from anywhere from $90 - $120 per thousand, depending.

Same with the previous prices-- same mistake. In the olden days of 2019, primers went for about $29/1000... or 2.9 cents apiece... not 29 cents! :laugh2:

Which brings down the prices I quoted above by about 90 cents and 18 cents respectively.

Phew! Glad I straightened THAT out! :shock:

--R :p
 

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Sunday evening I sat down at the computer to order a NOE bullet mold in order to beat their announced Monday morning price hike. As I was doing so my wife looked at the screen and she gave me a look I was able to immediately decipher. To her disappointment I knew she had already gotten it for me for Christmas.

She was disappointed, but she showed me the mold, a four cav truncated 200 gr. .45 acp mold. Her effort was much appreciated, but she had mistakenly chosen the wrong one. So, the Christmas surprise mold goes in the mail today, and the four cav 200 gr. SWC H&G #68 design has been ordered.

I'll be able to cast a big batch of these before I have to wrap it and put it under the tree, so it works out best this way. :rofl:
 

scott1970

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Who

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@Roberteaux , I just noticed your Ft. Bragg avatar.

Here in NC there has been much talk about what to rename Ft. Bragg now that the name is not PC, because it is named after someone who lost I guess.

No one is asking me but I have the correct new name.

Ft. Brag.


It sounds the same. Most signs can be reused. All the history of the name continues on. But now it would just be named after a winner. Any winner.
 

Roberteaux

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@Roberteaux , I just noticed your Ft. Bragg avatar.

Here in NC there has been much talk about what to rename Ft. Bragg now that the name is not PC, because it is named after someone who lost I guess.

No one is asking me but I have the correct new name.

Ft. Brag.


It sounds the same. Most signs can be reused. All the history of the name continues on. But now it would just be named after a winner. Any winner.
I figured that they should re-name the post as "Fort McBragg"... after Commander McBragg, of course!

1c643ad2763deb7551c0e80e0af71847.jpg


--R :laugh2:
 

scott1970

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Garrett Holsters is offering 20% off a variety of their holsters over the next several days. They feature leather lined kydex and have a really solid reputation.
 
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THDNUT

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I'm headed up to Cabelas to buy some Aguila Super Extra .22 LR ammo that's on Black Friday sale for $14.99/250 rds, limit 2 boxes.

It's good stuff. I've never had a dud, which is more than I can say for Remington, Winchester, and occasionally Federal.

I'm getting these for a friend who doesn't have much .22 ammo. This plus the 2 boxes that he's buying will just about double his stash.

I have enough .22 LR already.
 

ehb

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Well, they're taking name suggestions to rename Rucker....

I should write a script that emails suggestions with random return addresses suggesting Fort Wales....

Think it out...

:cool:
 

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