Ideal rate of twist (MLP firearms and shooting thread)

CB91710

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Not in SC....there is no "brandishing" so that is no concern....it is either "point and present" or nothing....I personally don't believe "brandishing" would hold up for a case of "printing" or your shirt "riding up" etc. etc. The term itself lends to the item being "in the hand".

Bran-dish:
wave or flourish (something, especially a weapon) as a threat or in anger or excitement.


I promise I do get what everyone is saying, but I have yet to see a "printing" rule attached to a law as dealing with CC.
That is California's definition of "Brandishing" as well.

The problem is if someone "makes" you, and they don't make a scene about it, but instead quietly call the cops and keep you in view until the cops arrive, THEN they make the scene and claim that you threatened them.
There is so much video now that it's getting harder and harder to pull that off inside of a business, but that doesn't keep you out of cuffs or the holding cell until the cops have time to sort things out.

One of the stops (and arrests) on Live PD was a man who allegedly brandished during a "road rage" incident.
His side of the story was that the woman had cut him off, and he held up his phone motioning for her to get off the phone and drive.
He happened to be carrying, and the cops took him in.

But I don't see open carry laws as being a fix for that. If some "Karen" sees a gun and she doesn't think it should be there, nothing stops her from claiming "brandishing"
That is one of several reasons why, even if I lived in an open-carry state, I would still conceal. I might switch to OWB rather than IWB and rely on my coat for cover, but I wouldn't be out wearing shorts and a t-shirt with my stainless Kimber OWB.

The first rule of public display of a firearm is to be the first guy on the phone to the cops. Open carry allows anyone who doesn't like you or your gun to be the first one on the phone and you won't know it until you hear "Freeze!"
 

CB91710

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would you think that an unlawful display charge would lead to revocation of permit?
California, it depends on which of the 58 counties you are permitted by.
Issuance is at the sole discretion of the Sheriff, some have strict "good cause" requirements, and others (like mine) will issue for an intelligently worded "personal protection" statement.
Likewise, some require you to notify a peace officer upon formal contact, some require that you notify the Sheriff if you are ticketed or in an accident.
Being charged with a felony is a prohibiting condition, so yes, that would result in at the very least a suspension of the permit.

But some Sheriffs will refuse to issue or revoke if you have traffic tickets, citing that it shows disregard for the law.
State law is silent other than to say that the applicant must have "Good cause and be of good moral character"
 

KSG_Standard

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I saw lots of open carry in Colorado when we lived there and lots of open carry here in South Texas now. I never saw back then or see now, anybody getting hassled for it.
 

scott1970

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This is a riot.

A couple of days ago an auction was wrapping up for a spectacular S&W pre 27 3.5" which turned into a bidding war with a closing price of $6,025.00. Way more than the gun is worth.

I suspected the buyer would pop up on the S&W forum, and he did. Here's the hilarious back story. He wanted this gun in a bad way but kept getting outbid. He said he was carrying on about it at home. Without his knowledge his wife started an auction account and outbid him and everyone else just to surprise him with his dream gun. What a sweet and tragic gesture all at the same time.
 

Pop1655

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I'm with you, I don't want anybody to know I'm carrying.
Agree!

I've only seen one person carrying open, outside of law enforcement officers.
I was gonna say "well you haven't been to Texas lately", then saw who wrote the post.:laugh2:

I see it pretty regularly. I often look around in my head just as a little game wondering how many guns I've got in the dining room at a given time. Granted, opens would be a VERY small percentage of that total number, but it is something we see on a pretty regular basis.

If constitutional carry goes into effect September 1 (all indications are it will), it will be interesting to see how much that percentage changes.
 

scott1970

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I see open carry in Tennessee and Georgia on a fairly regular basis. The common denominator seems to always be the holster. It's almost always a five dollar Uncle Mike's foamy piece of garbage with a fine Old West hang to it.


On July 1st Tennessee's new constitutional carry law goes into effect. No more permits required for adults to tote guns in the state. Even eighteen year old enlisted men will be able to carry.
 

Bownse

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I would really love to read those rules on "printing" etc.
There is no defining terms or language for "printing" or for it to be a violation, that I have seen.

can you post them?

anyone else also?
It may have been a function of the "first wave" of people getting training and them being exceeding cautious with their advice. What I found quickly is this. The "openly discernable" phrasing seems to be where the confusion started.

I could see it "calming" down in the intervening years (and with more fine tuning of the regs) A current class might address is as something more along the lines of, "to avoid hassles from people who panic" instead of actually running afoul of The Fuzz. So, a function of the geneeral public getting past the hyperbole of "blood in the streets" and cleaning up the original regs (that also included having to have your CHL on you at all times even when not carrying... leaving it in your shoe when in the swimming pool was even cautioned against).

But, for further clarification, to anyone ELSE reading this and asking later
1) According to the actual legal definition:
Texas Government Code - Section 411.171. Definitions
(3) "Concealed Handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

Note "openly discernible " "ordinary observation of a reasonable person" rather than "someone who knows you are a CHL and looking for a bump in your shirt"


2) According to the Texas Department of Public Safety, “‘Concealed’ means that the weapon cannot be visible, and that its presence cannot be discernible through ordinary observation. It is a criminal offense for a license holder to carry a handgun in plain view, or to intentionally fail to conceal the weapon.”

Here's a handy paragraph I keep as my guideline, but it isn't "Legal Advice":
A concealed handgun license holder who displays his or her handgun or otherwise intentionally reveals (or, "Exhibits?" or "unintentionally/accidently fails to conceal?" ... I don't know, I'm no Lawyer)
that he or she is carrying a concealed handgun is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor (TX PC § 46.035[a]).
If the weapon is displayed in a manner intended to cause alarm, the license holder is also guilty of a Class B misdemeanor (TX PC §42.01[a][8]),
unless the incident takes place on school property, in which case the license holder is guilty of a third degree felony (TX EDC §37.125[a]),
which could be enhanced to a second degree felony, PENAL CODE § 46.11.
 
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LocoTex

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I'm on the smallish end of body size, so when I carry I always start out worrying that my gun is printing. Pretty much anything bigger than a derringer prints on me. But when I go out and don't think about it I rarely spot anyone carrying. If I think about it though, I can usually tell who is carrying. I think most people don't have it on their minds and don't notice unless it's really obvious.
 

HardCore Troubadour

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Bownse, all of that makes perfect sense......my problem is, I do not know what part of that is actual law and what part is put there by the author.

Tex, I actually make a game of trying to spot concealed weapons when I am out....it is not as easy as you would think.

Do you think you can tell because of "printing" or body language?

I guess what I am really trying to point out is there's no real recourse for "printing" or the semblance of a weapon that is fully concealed from view, the idea was put forth to SELL MERCHANDISE.

....and to stop morons.....lol.
 
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Bownse

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Tip 1: Don't stand around with your elbow resting on the pistol butt under your cover garment.

As for "not knowing" law from personal opinion, true. But the LTC laws have changed a lot (more sensible) since the first wave of CCWs were trained. What were cautions back then have been mitigated with clarifications and rewordings of the code.
 

Foo for Thought

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Paranoia about printing is normal when you first start carrying. My extremely unscientific observation is that probably 99% of the population have zero situational awareness, or close to it. Most are neck deep in their phone totally engrossed in the latest on Fakebook or Twatter.
 

CB91710

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Paranoia about printing is normal when you first start carrying. My extremely unscientific observation is that probably 99% of the population have zero situational awareness, or close to it. Most are neck deep in their phone totally engrossed in the latest on Fakebook or Twatter.
Yep.
Those most likely to "make" you are those who are also carrying, and cops.
Cops will size you up and have a good idea whether or not you should be carrying.
Private carriers are a crap shoot, depending on how new they are to carrying, or how dumb they are.

... or your wife :facepalm:
Ya... We went to dinner a few days after I got my permit. I ordered tea instead of a beer. Wife asked why I didn't want a beer, and I just rolled my eyes toward my waist.
"OH, You've got your gun?"
The waitress had a bit of a shocked look, and calmed down when I calmly and quietly said "Of course I do"
She probably thought we were just dating.... though 10 minutes in a room with us and it's obvious that we've been together over 30 years :rofl: :rofl:
 

Roberteaux

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Ammo back on the shelves in my area.

Powder, shot, and bulk brass got a little scarce for a while there, but never vanished utterly. The big deal was primers...

Well, today I found primers back on the shelves as well. They were about double what they were prior to the 2020 Fun Fest, but there they were nonetheless.

Also, that whole deal with the Russian primers finally did come to pass. Curiously, the final permissions and so forth fell into place for the importers pretty much right when the domestic factories started putting primers back on the shelves of reloading supply stores hereabouts.

Figures! :laugh2:

The amusing thing is to see that the Russian (Wolf) primers are priced at only about $5/1000 less than CCI... no big savings there, in other words. However, I can also report that I bought some anyway, and they've worked just fine. We're talking about Boxer primers here, not Berdan... and they're non-mercuric. I'd use them again.

--R
 

SteveC

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Availability is rebounding slightly around my neck of the woods. Prices are still very high, even though they are dropping slightly. They're still nowhere near what I'd consider paying, however.
 

LocoTex

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I finally found .357 magnum at my LGS. Higher price than I am used to paying, but beggars can't be choosers. I figure ammo is kinda like money in the bank now.

You buy your William Devane gold and I'll buy ammo. When the SHTF my ammo will be more valuable. ;)
 
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HardCore Troubadour

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Local Charlotte NC news today:

Folks should take all that energy spent on worrying about printing and gear it toward proper gun storage. Saturday night a local moron had THREE handguns stolen from his unlocked truck. No serial numbers were available for any of them. They'll eventually turn up at a gang shooting, but Capt. Stupid will never see them again since we couldn't enter them into NCIC.
 


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