Ideal rate of twist (MLP firearms and shooting thread)

Neffco

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
2,387
Reaction score
4,334
all the land in the world doesn't do any good if you aren't skilled with a bow...??? Maybe I'm missing something. The pollen has been getting to me the last couple of days.

I've never had the patience for bow hunting, but I do love me some turkeys. I do try to go old school, no blind, no decoys, unless i'm hunting with a newb or a kid. I would even go so far as to use a pistol, if they were legal in my state.
I enjoy archery as much as firearms, maybe more. I usually harvest at least one grouse a year. Modern bows are quite accurate.
 

Neffco

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
2,387
Reaction score
4,334
Who’s shooting the 6.5 Grendel? I keep getting drawn to this caliber upper. I’m in saving money mode now though.

I’m always shooting cheap 223. It is not the most accurate. I can’t get myself to buy match ammo in such a small caliber. I actually have never reloaded 223, maybe I’ll give that a shot first. Reloading such small rounds seems like a pain in the ass.

The Grendel could share projectiles with the creed and has a lot more long range potential making it more appealing to load than 223.
 
Last edited:

Roberteaux

Super Mod
V.I.P. Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2010
Messages
28,490
Reaction score
138,273
Who’s shooting the 6.5 Grendel?
Not I, says Roberteaux-- though it's very easy to see why somebody would. If I was gonna go to 6.5mm stuff, though I'd probably go with the 6.5 Creedmore anyway. Easier to source brass with that one, because it's a lot more popular.

At that, I might just go with .243 Winchester anyway. That way, I could just source 7.62 x 51 NATO or .308 Winchester brass and re-form it into .243 Winchester. That way the price I'm paying for brass would drop because there's a lot more 7.62 x 51 NATO floating around out there than actual .243 Winchester brass.

But at this point, I'm basically all-consumed by messing with .270 Winchester.

Not sure what rifle type(s) you're firing .223 through, but be advised if it's an AR15 or other "service rifle" knockoff, the basic "standard issue rack rifle" is only proofed to produce groups of 2 MOA to begin with.

The rifles you see competitors using at the average "service rifle" match that's all about group size are mostly using rifles that are modified target rigs. Calling a rifle of this sort as a "service rifle" is a lot like calling a NASCAR vehicle a "stock car".

Meanwhile there may be a point to purchasing match grade ammunition for a non-accurized rifle-- but maybe not.

The stuff might be perfect for whatever rifle you have... but chances are also excellent that it won't do much for your groups despite the consistency in dimensions when it comes to match grade ammo. But what happens when the stuff is chambered and fired will definitely be affected by the specific rifle it's being used in.

For a person such as yourself I'd say:

Your best bet to improve accuracy is to first measure your rifle's chamber, and after that to acquire a bullet seating depth gauge (and maybe a comparator) and to then set your ammo up to correspond to the specific rifle you'll be using it in.

What you're doing here is setting things up so that the distance the bullet has to jump through the leade of the chamber to get to the barrel proper is as small as possible... like, you only want the bullet to be standing off from the beginning of the grooves and lands of the rifle's bore about .020" or so.

Have a look at this:

Concerning Bullet Seating Depth

Thing is: once you dial your ammo in like that, it will only tighten up groups produced by the individual rifle it was tailored for. It might not be more accurate-- or even safe to fire-- in another rifle, depending.

After that, case concentricity goes a long way towards tightening things up more downrange... but that's only if you've got the shit dialed in for chamber size first.

Reloading such small rounds seems like a pain in the ass.
:hmm:

Nah, not really.

The only pita involved is this: if all you've ever loaded was handgun ammo, then there are a few extra steps you have to take when it comes to case prep for rifle food. You've got to get into trimming for length, primer pocket crimp removal (when using milsurp brass), and even if you have a carbide die for .223 (only Dillon makes one, and it's kinda pricey), you *still* have to lube the little suckers.

So then you end up having to clean the cases twice: first just to do a basic cleaning, and then after that, to remove the lube. If you don't, you'll find your cases going to hell depending on the lube you used... and they might also pick up a lot of dirt because lube likes to collect particles like that.

I don't do much to make what I'll call "service rifle ammunition" more accurate. The reason I don't tailor the stuff to a specific rifle is only this: it's because I have three (four?) rifles that shoot .223, and I never know which one I might decide to take to the range. I also want the stuff to work in any of those rifles... and so none of it is treated to be anything other than within spec for .223/5.56 to begin with.

But even at that: you've got to do a lot of case prep anyway. Just not so much as when you're loading for accuracy in a specific rifle.

And that's even when you're loading a larger rifle cartridge case up. All the same processes are involved as when loaidng .223/5.56.

So if you've already loaded large-size rifle cartridges, there will be nothing new about loading .223...

--R
 

Bownse

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
530
Reaction score
629
Wow, this is cheaper, and has a case trimmer die.

Lee is cheaper for a reason. I started with a Lee Progressive for (.380, 9mm, .40, .45acp, .38 special, .357 mag, and .44 spec/mag). Loaded for years. No "real" complaints but was looking and something from RCBS or elsewhere by the time I quit.

I only hunted with my 30-06 so did it with my single stage press (another lee) that I started with before going progressive.
 

JonCanfield

Reality is over rated
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
7,763
Reaction score
23,399
Thanks again for all the input everyone. I ordered the Lee Challenger kit - Brownells had it for the least, and after the signup for email discount it was $129.
Had to shop at 3 different places for some of the supplies - .45 carbide die set from Amazon, powder, bullets, brass for .45 from Reloading Unlimited, and primers (large & small), 9mm brass and bullets from Brownells.

Splitting it up like that makes the bill look a little smaller too :laugh2:

Still looking for the 9mm die set

No I wish I'd been collecting my brass when I shoot. Oh well, lesson learned
 

JonCanfield

Reality is over rated
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
7,763
Reaction score
23,399
:thumb:

My attitude towards somehow becoming a younger man is pretty much the same as yours. I actually feel sorry for young folks today. You'll never seem me out there busting on Millennials, that's for sure. They've got things bad enough without hearing from me.

And I say: not only are they unaware of what they missed, but they're also clueless as to what direction things seem to be heading in.

We trained with the M3 in weapons class... but it was the early (non-a1) version without the charging handle that we had access to on the firing range. I'm sure you've seen them, though: there was just a big hole drilled in the bolt, and you yanked the thing back into the cocked position with your finger... :hmm:

The weapon was impressive on any number of levels, more good than bad I'd say. But yeah, I knew what you meant about firing the sucker. I only got to chug through a couple of magazines with it on a firing range once... but that was enough of an experience to provide me with vivid memories of the type. :hmm:

We were still eating C-rats in '77 - '80... no idea when MRE's made their debut, but so many guys told me that they're quite nasty in their own right that I never became curious enough to seek a pack just to try it for myself. Somebody told me that without sufficient water, they were sawdust-like, with extra pulpwood chunks added for extra negative appeal... and that if you prepared them correctly, you ended up with "fibrous mush"... :p

I was LMAO at the "fibrous mush" comment, and nearly convulsed with more laughter as he shook his head sourly and told me, "And that was as good as they got!"

One advantage I could imagine, though: not lugging metallic cans of food in your rucksack along with everything else.... you'd always get a can (or a box of cans, depending) that slipped away from where you first placed it prior to setting out on a forced march... and sure enough: it would seek another position in there and end up jabbing you either in the back or somewhere near your tailbone.

If they gave us a break en route, everybody immediately dropped their rucks and started foraging around in there... not to retrieve anything, but just to get those freakin' cans and/or boxes the hell away from their spine! :laugh2:

I recall now that was armored units were issued the black beret back in our day, now that you mention it. :hmm:

And now I also recall being puzzled when Desert Storm got going... I was working at an airport (Daytona Beach) and we had lots of military personnel going through... and every one of 'em had a black beret, but none of 'em had a Ranger tab. I only spotted a few parachutist's badges, too.

So I figured that they were all members of an armored division or something. Maybe the parachutists were guys who were in an airborne unit in a previous enlistment, something like that? :dunno:

Later I asked a guy I worked with about the sudden abundance of black berets. He was with the Florida National Guard (53rd Infantry Brigade, IIRC) and was about to be mobilized himself. That's when I learned that everybody but airborne units and Special Forces was now wearing black berets... not just Rangers and Armor any more...

So how do you like that? And then, when Pat Tillman was slain, I think that was the first time I ever saw the tan beret that the Ranger Battalions went with...

I just kinda didn't keep track of that sort of thing. You know, I liked the military life quite a bit-- and I'm really glad that I served, if only because of the attitude adjustment I was provided with thereby-- but I wasn't true lifer material.

I'm still not sure if I made a mistake by separating when I did, though. When I got back to The World, I found that despite the perks of being a civilian, that I wasn't quite suited for that, either.

ROFL No matter where I was to be found, I was always something of a misfit!

--R :laugh2:

ETA: I saw your remark about warming C-rats on a tank exhaust manifold (or something similar) the other day. You know, in the 82nd the only tanks we had were Sheridans... the air-droppable M551.

After SF school, I terminated SF status after learning that I'd never be put on an Operational Detachment unless the balloon went up.

So they had me raking rocks and painting parking lot bollards and it pissed me off. I signed up to be a grunt, not a maintenance man.

So I was sent to the 82nd Airborne, where I found a home, a home, a home away from home... :laugh2:

And the master sergeant who recommended that course of action wasn't lying. The 82nd sure did keep me in the field a lot! And so I finally actually felt like a soldier. :thumb:

But man: all that humping and ruck life also got old after a fashion... be careful of what you wish for!

Then they had us on some huge series of maneuvers that took place at Fort Chaffee, Arkansas, and it was there that I finally saw three or four Sheridans in the field... first time ever. We hooked up with the unit, which would be giving us a ride to our next objective.

And so I got the experience of allowing a can of C-rats to warm up over the grating that served as an engine cover. It was nice, man-- usually we ate all that shit ice-cold. Our whole thing was to move quickly and to try and avoid detection, and so usually we didn't even get to build a small fire to hear our shit over, except for on rare occasions.

Once in a while they'd roll in a vehicle with mermite containers full of mush to eat. Half the time, C-rats were preferable to the watery concoctions they'd spat into your canteen cup. Runny eggs with bits of mystery meat? Oh, yum... :laugh2:

It was nice, too, to get a ride instead of hoofing it everywhere. I was hanging on for dear life on the back of the turret of that tank, and at one point saw that we were about to hit a pine tree. The tree had a bole of maybe about 4 or 5 inches in diameter.

We hit the damned tree head on. I was braced for a jarring impact... and to my great surprise, we felt nothing. It was as if the tank had smashed into a very tall cattail or something. I was quite surprised by that.

Armor! You guys had your perks, all right. Warm C-rats!

But it's the thing with the tree-- and when we suddenly flushed a bunch of deer who were bedded down for the day and I watched them scampering off-- that are the most vivid memories I had of the day the tanks gave us a ride.
I was a driver on a M60A1. The Cav unit had the Sheridans. I remember climbing up on one and seein Alcoa stamped on the hull. They had a serious gun though - 152mm. In AIT we trained on the M60A2 - it had the same 152 main gun. No brass with those, the case burned up when the round was fired. Also able to fire a IR guided missile

I always felt bad for the grunts when we’d go past them. Didn’t help that we were in an infantry division (3rd).
I have major respect for you SF and airborne types.
 

Bownse

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
530
Reaction score
629
I always felt bad for the grunts when we’d go past them. Didn’t help that we were in an infantry division (3rd).
I was in a comms battalion attached to the 2nd ID. We drove everwhere, always had a 10k generator, snacks, music, and more. I felt less simpathy for the grunts that relief that we weren't them.
 

JonCanfield

Reality is over rated
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
7,763
Reaction score
23,399
We have no open stores here. Even the one that was doing appointment only was shut down by the county. Good old gun loving CA
 
  • Wow
Reactions: Who

Roberteaux

Super Mod
V.I.P. Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2010
Messages
28,490
Reaction score
138,273
I was a driver on a M60A1. The Cav unit had the Sheridans. I remember climbing up on one and seein Alcoa stamped on the hull. They had a serious gun though - 152mm. In AIT we trained on the M60A2 - it had the same 152 main gun. No brass with those, the case burned up when the round was fired. Also able to fire a IR guided missile

I always felt bad for the grunts when we’d go past them. Didn’t help that we were in an infantry division (3rd).
I have major respect for you SF and airborne types.
First, I will say this: I thank you warmly for the decency and great consideration of your sentiments as you expressed them. Know too that I figure that the tank guys had to be about as crazy as we were, though in a different sort of way.

The fact is, that nobody bothers to waste small arms ammo while shooting at tanks, except for in a Tom Hanks movie. Instead, when they go after something like an M60 or a T-72, they shoot the really BIG stuff... the kind that explodes and really blows the shit out of whatever it hits.

It therefore takes a certain kind of uncommonly brave fellow to go to war in an iron chariot like that.

You do have my greatest respect, Jon... take it to the bank, man. :thumb:

****************​

Actually I have a basic level of respect for all of our military personnel, seeing as they serve while having their Constitutional rights relieved somewhat by UCMJ... and that alone can be a real ball-buster for those who are used to calling the shots in their own life without interference.

No MOS exists for any reason other than the specialty entailed by that MOS is essential to the military's needs. If the military didn't need it, it doesn't exist for long.

Therefore, even those who mostly remained "in the rear with the gear" are crucial to the success of our military forces... all of them.

Combat arms personnel might be the spearhead of a military effort... but the spear needs a shaft, and hands to direct its thrust... eyes and ears to see what needs to be speared to begin with.

We all had our part to play.

***************
Another thing that ensures my full respect (for anybody other than the mouthiest and most disrespectful of combatants or non-combatants, whom I wouldn't respect no matter what they did for a living) is that the status of being "in the rear" can change with lightning rapidity in an all-out war. You just never do know when an enemy airborne unit or an armored division might either pop up behind one's lines or smash through one's defenses. In some operations, both of these things might happen at once.

And that's when Mr. Clerk Typist better flash onto what he learned in basic training, because the choices then are only three in number: you die, you fight and maybe die or are wounded, or you surrender and enjoy the enemy's always-hospitable treatment of you as a P-W.

***************
One of the guys I went through SF school with was an 05B radio operator. And because commo was desperately needed by the operational detachments, he was told to report to an OD for orders as to his next mission.

He was elated when he set forth that morning, sure that an OD was knockin' on his door. But when he came back he looked bemused. I asked him WTF and he told me that he'd just been placed on a team that did nothing but to hunt down enemy radio operators and signal corps guys-- especially in the enemy's rear areas and especially large facilities-- with the final job being to kill all of those bastards and completely wreck their gear.

"So they're sending me to HALO school, since that's how we'll be sneaking in so deep... and exfiltration is going to be kind of rough, but then, the basic detachment is even smaller than an A-team, to thus make sneaking the hell out of the enemy's area a little easier." he said.

"Damn!" was all I could think of as a response. My buddy nodded and said, "That's what I said when they told me what I was gonna be doing. Not sure if I'm happy about this or not..." :hmm:

"Be happy," I told him. "I've painted almost half the parking lot bollards on this stupid post, and now they want me to assemble wall lockers for the frikkin' 18th Airborne Corps! I'd rather be you!"

Which is to say again: there's nobody in the airborne combat formations who is there against his will. No point in feeling sorry for us, seeing as we chose what we'd be doing for a living.

Draftees were another story. But then, even *they* have to volunteer for airborne duty. There are zero paratroopers who were there because they were stuck there against their will.

And so they're a very proud bunch. Feeling sorry for them is a waste of good sympathy. That's really the truth.

***************​

Having said that, please allow me to say that I did-- and still do-- tend to reserve my greatest respect for combat arms specialists, be they armor, artillery, infantry, airborne infantry, or whatever. And that's especially the case with the military as it was following the ending of the US draft.

Those guys are all spearhead troops-- the pointy end of the stick by their very trade as military specialists-- and to expand on this idea, even those non-combat specialists who accompany such units into hell's half acre get their props from me.

It's a matter of shared hardships, I believe. And you were either there... or you weren't.

And let's face it: most weren't.

***************​

Of course, in the airborne units, there are no support personnel who drop in behind enemy lines with them. And the last ride you get is usually on the bird that brought you in.

So one reason the airborne infantry has its rep is because those units always begin their missions more or less surrounded by the enemy-- and are usually vastly outnumbered as well.

A lot of civilians think that the big deal to being airborne is simply that one jumps out of airplanes, but nothing could be further from the truth. In reality, it's the sheer hairiness of the typical airborne mission that makes service in such units the very dangerous game it so happens to be.

But by the same token, and again: if one thinks I don't fully appreciate the guys who are shooting really big stuff at other guys-- who are shooting right back with equally big boomers-- well, you don't know me. When I consider what a duel between armored units might be like, the very first phrase that blows through my mind would be Hell on Earth.

And that's what you were facing, Brother Jon... damn! :shock:

Still and again: no matter what one does for a living in the military, it's gonna be a ball buster in some ways. And if the balloon goes up, it can get you killed, too.

So that's why I never dis guys who served as something other than airborne infantry-- though I've noticed that sometimes they like to dis me.

Just, they never seem to do that in person. :laugh2:

***************​

Beyond all that shit:

Yasa, the Sheridan was kind of a trip. It was also interesting to learn that the type could "swim", though I never actually saw it done.

The encounter I already described was the first (and only) time I ever saw a Sheridan in the field, though I was on hand at Fort Chaffee's Rattlesnake drop zone to observe as the drop itself actually took place...

First, they'd drop in a couple of companies of grunts, and once it was thought that we could secure and protect the drop zone, they'd send in a C-130 that had the tank on board.

After dropping the crew out (usually along with the grunts), the bird with the tank in it would turn around and come back at treetop level. A drog chute was tossed out of the open loading ramp, and that dragged the main chute out behind it. Then the main chute array would then fill and open and the tank-- which was mounted on a palette that was sitting on rollers-- would be pulled out of the cargo door by the main chutes.

I understood that the tank could be deployed from higher altitudes by a larger array of chutes... but what I saw done on Rattlesnake DZ at Fort Chaffee was the first method, where the bird came in really low over the deck. According to the TC of the Sheridan I caught a ride on, the higher-altitude method was not preferred, because it exposed the tank to too much time in the air (and therefore, possibly effective ground fire from enemy forces) and also because chute malfunctions could easily cost our side a tank.


For that matter, they tended to drop us out lower than usual for combat purposes. The so-called "training jump" was an affair involving troops with no combat gear going out the door at about 1,200' above ground level... which gave the solider plenty of time to cut away a malfunctioning chute and to deploy the reserve we had strapped across our bellies.

But the "combat jump" was a different animal altogether. In that one, you went out the door at 600 - 800' AGL, with a full combat load and no reserve. The chute opened just in time to keep you from getting killed, but you ended up plummeting into the ground and hitting it with enough force that one could easily tell the difference... meanwhile, all that gear you had with you was a factor as well-- especially if you were stuck with something like the fairly large and heavy M-60 machine gun I ended up with in the 82nd division.

Nobody will ever know how sick of that gun I was, after humping it through all kinds of terrain for so very long as I did. Nice, 23-pound machine gun: fun to go mountain climbing with. Great fun to trudge through wetlands while holding that sucker over my head, too. :laugh2:

***************​

Rifling through my memories, it seems to me that I might have made as many as three or four combat jumps... though I only remember two of them with great surety. The first combat jump I ever made was necessary to do so as to enter Special Forces school in Phase 1 of the Q-course.

They wanted everybody's cherry to be popped, as it were, and for the individual soldier to demonstrate ongoing commitment to his mission by doing a combat jump... even though it wasn't for any other purpose than to demonstrate grit.

But then: that's what Phase 1 of the SF qualification course was all about to begin with: grit. It was a four-week long journey into a weird kind of mind-bending hell, in which one was deprived of sleep, trained under perfectly abominable conditions, and was subjected to all kinds of abuse never seen in basic or AIT.

Essentially, they were looking for guys who didn't want it badly enough put up with it, and to so be washed out. And while we did indeed suffer about a 15 or 20% attrition rate in Phase 1, there were zero washouts due solely to the combat jump.

After all: we were an all-volunteer force to begin with, and not a one of us was there for any reason other than we wanted to be there. You don't get to be a green beret by accident, there's a lot of personal will involved.

So the combat jump was just a momentary thrill to us, not some reason to quit SF school.

***************​

The second combat jump I ever made was when I volunteered for service with the 82nd Airborne Division-- and once again, it was one of those do-or-die "cherry jump" deals. The 325th Infantry Regiment insisted on it, and so I was one of four n00bs who went up for a jump, after being notified that this is what they wanted me to do about a half-hour earlier.

Long story as to how I ended up in the 82nd, with the short version being simply that I realized I wouldn't be finding a home on an operational detachment (the so-called "A-team" of SF fame), and in the meantime they'd be using me for really stupid shit like maintenance, cleanup, and other services of a fairly mundane variety.

Seriously: they had us mopping floors, cleaning latrines, raking rocks and mowing grass... and it sucked. You go through bloody hell to qualify for that green beret, but now they're gonna have you assembling new wall lockers for the 18th Airborne Corps? Fuck that! :facepalm:

There was even a joke about we fellas who couldn't find a team. We were referred to as "the world's deadliest janitors"... and while the joke itself was very amusing-- even to us-- the reality of our situation was not much to our liking.

The conditions we endured in the 46 weeks of training it took to produce a qualified Special Forces soldier from scratch was demanding enough-- but to end up as we did after all that? It was a shitty way to go, though I will also say: it wasn't the Army's fault.

When they signed guys like me up, nobody foresaw that we wouldn't find a home on an operational detachment... but in the interim, some shit happened to really screw things up for the hopeful candidates...

***************​

See, it was 1977 and the US public was war weary after Vietnam finally ended. Then too, the 1975 Church Committee had uncovered a slew of offenses committed by various federal law enforcement agencies, along with the C.I.A.

And seeing as it was the CIA which sometimes gave SF its marching orders, Special Forces-- which sometimes boiled down to being a unit that served almost as the armed wing of the CIA-- ended up under a dark cloud as well.

The CiC wasn't fond of SF... especially not after the Son Tay Raid, which a legion of journalists decried as being "the prelude to WW3", even though Operation Ivory Coast was anything but such a drastic event. Still, the audaciousness of the raid scared the fuck out of the North Vietnamese, and the USSR likewise shit a brick.

But fuck 'em. After subjecting our soldiers whom they took as P-W's to the sort of abuse they did, what made anybody think we were gonna be *nice* to their captors to begin with?

So even though the prisoners weren't there any more-- they'd been transferred a few days before the raid took place-- a lot of their former captors ended up being unexpectedly reincarnated into pond scum, courtesy of the 5th and 7th Special Forces group.

And again I say: fuck 'em...

Everybody wants to whine about the US committing atrocities in the field, while conveniently forgetting that while sometimes US soldiers did indeed commit war crimes out there, that "war crimes" were standard operating procedures on the part of the enemy.

So one last time I say: fuck 'em. Summary execution was nothing compared to what they did to most of our personnel whom they captured.

***************​

Of course, the attitude in D.C. didn't help me one little bit, because what CiC did was to slash funding for all three of the active SF groups of the time... including the 5th, which was the group I was assigned to.

When the money got low, we did do a lot of training as air mobile forces-- kind of like the 101st does all the time, and we were to fight the way the 173rd Airborne fought at Dak To... but our purpose was to serve as a "mike force", which would come in to assist operational detachments at A-camps which were beset upon by overwhelming forces.

They'd either fast-rope us or drop us off the birds by coming down low and hovering while we jumped off, always attempting to put us to where we'd have the enemy's forces caught between us and whatever fire they were receiving from the A-camp... the ol' pincer movement, in other words.

But then money ran out for that. And that's when they started using me as manual labor.

dc and myself 02.JPG

Two Men About to Graduate from SF School with No Idea that They Were
Destined to Become the World's Deadliest Janitors
July 4th, 1978

So I finally got my back up about it, and showed up at the "white house", which was USAIMA headquarters, to complain to the CSM of the 5th Group that this was *not* what I had in mind when I signed up. I expected him to toss me out a window-- and fuck him if he did-- but to my surprise he was actually sympathetic to me.

And what he came up with was this: if I wanted to be in the field, training for war as much as possible, then he had an in with a CSM down in the 325th Regiment of the 82nd Airborne. If I terminated SF status but kept jump status, I could be down there with the eight-deuce in a matter of four days or so. He gave me his personal guarantee on this.

800px-325InfRegtDUI.png

Official Insignia of the 2nd Battalion, 325th Airborne Infantry Regiment

I didn't like the idea at first... but Top told me that for sure, I was gonna be stuck in limbo forever with SF, and he even described the role CiC had to play in my unfortunate situation. He said again, "Do you really want to be an airborne infantry soldier? 'Cause if you go to the 82nd, not only will they train your ass really hard, but you will even be a little bit ahead of most SF elements when it comes to rapid deployment. You'll be kept ready to go at a moment's notice, as one of the main things about the 82nd and the Airborne Rangers is that they want to preserve a 'wheels up in 18 hours' kind of response to national threats. And best of all, even our current president isn't fool enough to cut the funding to the 82nd 'cause it's a really big gun. So they're in the field a whole lot more often than the average SF trooper is..."

The more he talked, the better I liked the idea. And so I went for it.

***************​

I will say this also:

I found that I actually liked serving with the 82nd a lot better than I liked serving with SF. The esprit de corps and camaraderie in the 82nd was much higher than it was to be on Smoke Bomb Hill, where a large supply of deadly janitors languished in boredom that was only partially relieved by the dives and gamey whores of Hay Street in Fayetteville.

20170603_015507.jpg

I Still Have My Original Jump Wings

And so that's kind of the short course when it comes to explaining how I ended up with the 82nd's patch on my shoulder.

That which I at first saw as being some kind of foul fate or bad luck turned into one of the best breaks I ever got. For as it turned out, I ended up loving the 82nd Division with a ferocious intensity that I never felt towards the 5th Special Forces or the green berets in general.

You know, the first tattoo I ever got was one of the two seen in the below photograph:

008.JPG

The other tattoo is a Voudou veve representing Legba Atibon... you might say that I got very into Voodoo while hanging out in New Orleans so often as I did... and so that photo was taken to commemorate the veve right after I had drilled into my arm... though it's handy for our purposes today because it's also a shot of my first-ever: a tattoo commemorating my service years in the 82nd Airborne, as an airborne infantry soldier.

Damn, it's old and gray-- and I'm kind of getting that way myself, though I've still got all my hair and it has remained kind of a shit brown.

But this brings me to my ultimate point-- the reason I bothered to type up this brief memoir...

***************​

As I said right at the beginning: I will be respectful towards those who are respectful towards me, no matter what the rest of their game consists of. But those who don't wish to be respectful? Fuck 'em, never had a use for such persons to begin with. And I am *very* good at being disrespectful towards assholes... I got a master's degree in that as a cop and a Ph.D. in the business as a bar bouncer. :laugh2:

Remember: after I got out of the military I was a cop for almost 9 years... and I got right sick of mouthy assholes in that era... though I also got used to listening to their shit. So while it registers as the SOS, it's not as if I am truly impressed by any of it when people decide they want to get snarky with me... especially not online.

But hey, Jon: you did me a solid with your kindly attitude... and I figure you to be a brother in arms.

I felt that it was very decent of you to have expressed your sentiments as you did, and you actually managed to touch my heart somehow, though you had to penetrate a wall of concrete to get to it. But then: isn't that what tanks are good for to begin with? :thumb:

And hey: I sized you up as a good egg a *very* long time ago to begin with. So you tend to have more influence with me than most guys do. You're a very easy fella to like.

Thus I say one last time: never feel sorry for a grunt who was actually crazy enough to volunteer to serve as one. Any soldier who went in after 1973 necessarily picked his MOS, and even though we looked bedraggled and loved to complain strenuously, the fact is that for those who cared to learn how to be that sort of soldier, there was simply no replacement.

You're a righteous dude, John. Thanks again for your expressions of comradeship. It was greatly appreciated by me.

--Robert :thumb:
 
Last edited:

Roberteaux

Super Mod
V.I.P. Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2010
Messages
28,490
Reaction score
138,273
Today's take at Ye Olde Reloading Shop (aka Young's Enterprises in Orange City, Florida):

20200402_170808.jpg

He was out of the stuff I was looking for in 4 and 8-pound containers...

But two out of the three items seen above can be used for both .270 Winchester and with .223/.5.56. That's the Varget powder and the IMR 4064.

The H4831SC is good for .270 Win, and it's nicer than Varget in the sense that the extruded particles are shorter in length than grains of Varget powder. Actually, the "SC" in the name means "short cut"...

(and doesn't stand for "Steve C", as some seem to believe!) :p

The projectiles on the left are 208-grain spitzers that I use in .300 Blackout subsonic cartridges, the bullets in the middle are TMJ, 230-grain slugs for .45 ACP... and the stuff on the right is just good old .224", 55-grain bullets that I use for my .223 Remington cartridges and M193 military clones.

Last but not least, I got another 1,000 large pistol primers. The thing I like about the WMR types is that they're good for both regular and magnum pistol loadings, though they're priced lower than, say, CCI magnum pistol primers.

That run on .270 Winchester that I got into this week sure did eat up a lot of powder... like, 40-60 grains of powder, depending on the bullet weight. And so you get a maximum of 175 cartridges out of a pound of the stuff on the low end, and maybe 100 cartridges from a pound on the high end.

My buddy at the shop told me to come back in three days, and he'd have a 4-pound bottle of Varget set aside for me.

Which is cool. Varget will send a 55-grain bullet downrange faster than spec for M193, and with less chamber pressure to boot. But the thing is: I've still got a bunch of Accurate 2230 sitting around, and that stuff is even better at doing the same thing than Varget, plus it's a spherical powder which makes it less of a pita to work with than Varget.

But, Varget is not top-of-the-line for velocity in .270 Winchester. Instead, it's merely adequate.

So... a compromise is at hand...

I asked him, "What about H4895? Can you get me eight pounds of that?

He thinks he can, but it will take another week or so.

I don't mind waiting, I reckon... it's not as though I am OUT of powder for .270 Winchester... just getting kind of low.

There's the trick, though: you purchase your primers, powders, and what-not before you actually need the stuff... and you'll never be desperate for it.

I learned that back in 2013! :shock:

--R :laugh2:
 

Attachments

scott1970

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2015
Messages
5,425
Reaction score
14,736
That’s why I prefer to buy Unique in eight pound kegs. If times make supplies lean I can still shoot a wide variety of calibers with this one powder.
 


Latest Threads



Top