Ideal rate of twist (MLP firearms and shooting thread)

Namelyguitar

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Spotting scope will be helpful anytime the target is far enough to make hits difficult to see with your eyes. At rifle distances in particular, they are helpful.
 

GunMonkeyINTL

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I will never in a million years understand why so many people recommend those to women just starting out in the shooting hobby. Even with 38s they can be pretty punishing to someone with smaller/softer hands.

It was probably good advice in some long ago time, but not for some years and especially not today.
Agreed. With modern bullet design, there’s no reason someone needs to start out with a defensive round bigger than a 9mm, or even a .380. As ball rounds, they were pretty underwhelming self-defense cartridges, but a good terminal-ballistic hollow-point makes all the difference.

I think the recommendation for small and/or new shooters comes from the manual of arms be simpler and requiring less hand strength than an auto loader- and .38 SPL being the lowest-power common revolver round.

S&W made a small revolver that took 9mm in clips. I think they brought it back a year or two ago, but I haven’t seen one of the new ones in the wild yet. If the manual of arms for a new/small shooter is the concern, that’d be worth looking at.
 

Bownse

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Transonic is the velocity range in between where your bullet behaves like a bullet that is traveling at supersonic speed, and one that is traveling at subsonic speed.

The Cliff Notes version:
Subsonic bullets are traveling slow enough that the air in front of them has time to push out of the way. Supersonic bullets are traveling fast enough that the air can’t get out of the way, and has to compress. These two conditions create different aerodynamics in front of and behind the bullet.

At sea level, at one bar, the speed of sound is approximately 1,125 fps. The speed of sound changes with air density (elevation being the biggest driver), humidity, and even chemical makeup.

The ability of air to “get out of the way” of your bullet in time to not be compressed doesn’t exactly align with the speed of sound through that particular air. The transonic velocity range is the band of velocities in which the air around your bullet behaves some like it’s subsonic and some like it’s supersonic. You can roughly think of it as the 200fps above and below the speed of sound in your air. When I shoot near home, that’s around 915 -1315 FPS (With the speed of sound being about 1115- rough numbers.)

If a bullet stays supersonic, its external ballistics is (relatively) easy to predict. Likewise if it stays subsonic. It’s stability changes, though, as it enters the transonic range, and again when it goes subsonic. Some bullet designs and spin rates handle the transition a little better. Some are aerodynamically designed specifically to not lose stability until the more abrupt change into subsonic travel. Those bullets are said to be accurate into the transonic range.
Excellent post. Thanks for the effort.

I've found (so far) that my .308 likes 185Gr Berger bullets out past 750 yards. I can do holdovers out to there with a mildot optic (and a longer list of ammo) and consistently get first-shot hits out to about 600 yards. Then I have to start being a little more meticulous. The Federal Berger 185 or the Berger Jufggernaut in the same weight has been holding up well but I have to work more on 800+ for consistency.
 

LocoTex

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After taking my wife to the range to shoot my S&W model 65 with .38 rounds it somehow became "her" gun. She was VERY good with that 4" barrel revolver with the .38 ammo. We decided when it all comes down she will use it and I will use the Glock 19.

Make sure you have enough ammo MLP bros.
 

GunMonkeyINTL

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Excellent post. Thanks for the effort.

I've found (so far) that my .308 likes 185Gr Berger bullets out past 750 yards. I can do holdovers out to there with a mildot optic (and a longer list of ammo) and consistently get first-shot hits out to about 600 yards. Then I have to start being a little more meticulous. The Federal Berger 185 or the Berger Jufggernaut in the same weight has been holding up well but I have to work more on 800+ for consistency.
Well, you’ve already got a good bullet for sonic transition. I’m assuming that 5R is either 1:11.25” or 1:10”, so you should have stability well into transonic, if not still usable at subsonic.

With a .308, the difficulty ratchets up pretty steeply past 800, no matter what you do. A .300WM in the 190-220gr range seems to see 800 as a chip shot, with difficulty increasing at 1100 or so.

If you continue to struggle with the 185 Juggs at 800, consider trying a 175 SMK. You give up some BC, but pick up some MV.
 

ehb

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I think a .38 is fine purse gun.
NOT a light (titanium) but a normal snub hidden hammer......
There are light paper puncher rounds that aren't too much of anything... or the flats (nothing protrudes above brass)...

Caliber or load makes little difference at oh shit range. A wheeler is easier to teach, factory trigger pull is usually ok because Oh Shit range is Oh Shit range...less that ten feet. Plus, a with non-featherweight, a good whack up against the head or hand as a last resort....

Easy to teach proper handling and operation.... It will NOT launch without pulling trig, no exposed hammer to snag....

Rationalize all one wants, under pressure, remembering to disengage safety or even where it is can mean a slab nap.... I have ballpark 10k out of one frame, it is natural to me as probably everybody or most in this room. To someone that does not have any range time to speak of, different animal...

Consider, you are within forearm distance with me checked and you look down to find safety. I just took your toy away from you and/or rendered you out of order...
 

ehb

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Damn I hate the little ass font in the editor... My psychobabble parallel processing brain usually with at least a couple threads involved in a mental trainwreck, my brain is ahead of fingers and I wind up skipping letters/words or even parts of sentences or trying to type two things at the same time....... The little editor font ain't helping me either with my old ass eyes...

Maybe I got splitz personalities.... Maybe so, but the other personalities need to learn to type, damnit... They keep messing me up making me type their shit and I wind up typing like an armadillo on acid.....


:cool2:
 

ehb

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For 9mm guys who don’t reload.... Walmart’s getting out of the handgun ammo biz.

15 cents a round. Brass case. Aluminum and steel case cheaper. I bought all the cheap brass-case stuff in my store. Cashier found it amusing.
A couple nights ago, I was in our Wally and I walked by sporting goods... Lady (blue vester) was prob late 50s multi colored hair and was bent over looking severely confused at the ammo shelves saying 'tell me what that is again'.... I just walked away... There were a couple of other customers there waiting for their turn with frustration... Just walked away....I didn't have an hour to kill for my turn at the wheel of arrrggghh.....
 

Dun Ringill

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This year I actually got a membership to Target Sports USA. I get a discount on the ammo and free shipping for any size order. I'm running about $.12 and $.16 for steel and brass respectively. The membership was $99 so it took a couple orders to recoup that part but most of the year is discounted! The selection can vary slightly so buying specific ammo may be problematic.

 

Dun Ringill

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This year I actually got a membership to Target Sports USA. I get a discount on the ammo and free shipping for any size order. I'm running about $.12 and $.16 for steel and brass respectively. The membership was $99 so it took a couple orders to recoup that part but most of the year is discounted! The selection can vary slightly so buying specific ammo may be problematic.

For reference, the Blazer brass are $7.81 when I am logged in, not $8.49.
 
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SteveC

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This year I actually got a membership to Target Sports USA. I get a discount on the ammo and free shipping for any size order. I'm running about $.12 and $.16 for steel and brass respectively. The membership was $99 so it took a couple orders to recoup that part but most of the year is discounted! The selection can vary slightly so buying specific ammo may be problematic.

Target Sports is my go-to ammo supplier. I get over 99% of my ammo from them. It's pretty rare when another supplier will have a better deal. Although, now that TS is collecting state tax for shipments to PA, I can sometimes do better at other sites that have not yet jumped on the tax collection bandwagon.

But, for my primary uses: Wolf Gold 223 and Fiocchi 9mm, TS is almost impossible to beat, price wise. Free shipping on full cases is great!
 

ehb

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I like shooting 124gr and up in 9mm....

With my old preban Colt AR 9mm carbine, I found that 115gr would wander all over the target at 100. The 124 and especially the 147gr it would shoot extremely well at 100.... 115gr just wouldn't stabilize for me at that range...

A bud and I played hit the stick (short 1x2 about 12" long marking stake laying on berm about target height....

He had a LAR .308 he had just built and told me to get a rifle out of my truck and let's play....

I grabbed the little carbine (red dot) and pulled out the stock... He laughed and said 'get a real rifle'..... I smoked his ass with it... The end of the long mag was perfect for a bench rest..... Holdover at 100 was the bottom edge of the red dot.... He was pissed owing me a burger bag and jumbo Coke..... It didn't dawn on him I knew holdover with the red dot, he was iron sights.... Heavy projectile out of a ---> 16" barrel <---, a 9mm IS accurate enough at 100 with a red dot or scope... I laughed my ass off at his bitching.... He didn't know that tweren't my first rodeo with that thing with 147gr rounds at 100....
 

Dun Ringill

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I like shooting 124gr and up in 9mm....

With my old preban Colt AR 9mm carbine, I found that 115gr would wander all over the target at 100. The 124 and especially the 147gr it would shoot extremely well at 100.... 115gr just wouldn't stabilize for me at that range...

A bud and I played hit the stick (short 1x2 about 12" long marking stake laying on berm about target height....

He had a LAR .308 he had just built and told me to get a rifle out of my truck and let's play....

I grabbed the little carbine (red dot) and pulled out the stock... He laughed and said 'get a real rifle'..... I smoked his ass with it... The end of the long mag was perfect for a bench rest..... Holdover at 100 was the bottom edge of the red dot.... He was pissed owing me a burger bag and jumbo Coke..... It didn't dawn on him I knew holdover with the red dot, he was iron sights.... Heavy projectile out of a ---> 16" barrel <---, a 9mm IS accurate enough at 100 with a red dot or scope... I laughed my ass off at his bitching.... He didn't know that tweren't my first rodeo with that thing with 147gr rounds at 100....
I may be assembling an AR-9 this weekend. Just waitin' on a couple parts!
 

GunMonkeyINTL

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A decent pistol caliber carbine is crazy fun. Rimless cartridges in an auto loader, or rimmed cartridges in a lever gun. Either way, everyone needs one.
 

ehb

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Plus, you can shoot some hot ass rounds in a 9mm carbine comfortably...

My only complaint is mags.. I prefer the 20s instead of 32s.... I have found over the years, folks do not want to part with Colt 20s... 32s, yeah, but not 20s....


I may break down and buy some Metalforms...but I prefer Colt stamped mags.... Yeah, I'm weird... I just have a thing for Colt mags...

I have ammo boxes full of old Colt marked ,223/5.56mm Nam era 20s.... A good disassemble, brush/clean, and lube with Rem Oil and those old cast followers never bind.... not once... Collected them for decades.... and STILL don't know why I started way back... Funny how at the range, I could be shooting on of my ARs and someone will see the flash of deep yellow on a mag and say "how much?" - Ain't for sale. "damn, those are the old good ones..." - Yep.

Me likey da Colts....

I actually like the Colt fivers that came with the Colt Accurized.... I wish a had a case of fivers.... I think I got one fiver with my Bushmaster DCM Service Match rifle along with the 20s too... Never liked the longer mags...

Got all kinds of mags for all my toys... I guess that ain't too insane....

Some folks drive pigeons across the damn countryside, throw em out, and try to beat em back home.... An old Navy 'pointed the 16s' bud was into that some years back.....
I said to him: 'Let me get this straight.'
1. Y'all each load up birds and go to a common place, right? - Yep
2. Y'll throw the birds out of the cage and they fly off, right? - Yep
3. Then y'all haul ass and try to beat the birds home and write down when they show up, right? - Yep
4. Y'all are all at your own respective homes by yo damn selfes, right? - Yep
5. So it is a race that nobody actually can watch and y'all ain't even together when it's over, right? - Yep
6. And it's fun? - Yep
7. Y'all are seriously warped ass individuals... Y'all need to get your mind right and watch college football. - That's boring.

We went round and round over his birds... I'd stand out back and talk to his birds and tell em next race, escape to Mexico... He'd tell me to get the hell away from his birds before I corrupt em...
 

HardCore Troubadour

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It is a sickness.........

local pawn has had an original Sig Sauer P230SL with the extra mag for $475.00 for about 6-8 weeks.

really spectacular shape etc. etc. but I already have a 230SL AND a P232SL (ver. 2), sitting in the safe...the 230 has been my EDC for many years until recently.

anyways, guy had said he would do $400 out the door etc. and I declined and told him I would do $375 all in if he ever decided.........I walked in today and he had decided.

He also allowed me to do "lay-a-way"....now I did not have to, and I could have paid him then, but he let me put $40 down and as long as I pay SOMETHING each month, no matter what, there will be no interest.

With it being the holidays, and I was not exactly gun shopping, I took him up on it.

 




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