Ideal rate of twist (MLP firearms and shooting thread)

SteveC

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i admit it, i can't read 399 pages to see if we settled this already...in the arena of shot guns for home defense, what does anyone think about one such as the Remington 870 tac 14 ? or the Mossberg 590? these are very short barreled, with a hand grip instead of a stock, meant to be fired with both hands, and only a total length of just over 26 inches. pump action with 4 or 5 plus 1 capability. What say anyone? I am not one for firearms, for the most part. But I am 65 now and do not relish hand to hand combat with an intruder. We had the house next door involved in a home invasion type robbery, which is why i'm thinking bad ass 12 guage
Those shorties do require some practice, especially if you're not really a firearms user. The recoil is a lot to handle and you don't want to find that out in the dark, at 0300. You might want to just use a regular sized shot gun (870 is a good choice).

Or, maybe a better choice would be a good double-stack pistol -- Glock (or, equivalent). If you can't solve the problem with 15+ rounds, your day is going to end bad.
 

SteveC

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TLR-8 on Glock-1.JPG



I run the 19 with light/laser. For me, it's the best option. I do have an AR readily available, in case things get really bad.
 

MSB

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IF I was going to break into someone's house that isn't very versed in firearms, I'd much rather them have the Glock than the 870.
 
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MSB

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I think the average person would have a greater likelihood to do damage with a shotgun than a pistol. If someone is willing to put the time in, I think the pistol is the way to go, but from my observations, most don't or won't.

I've taken all my better halves shooting quite a bit with everything I could get my hands on and they all preferred the shotgun because they didn't feel confident enough with pistols.

People really just have to decide what's the best for their personal situation. I also like the shotgun because I think there's more diversity in what you put in it for what/distance you plan to be shooting at. That said, I haven't had a shotgun for defense in a few years now.
 
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SGeoff

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Ok, heres my take. pistol, OUT. the laws in jersey are ridiculous, it takes 6 months to get a permit. I said I am not much for fire arms, not that I have never held one. I know what a 12 guage feels like, I know its short but I am a beefy guy and know what to expect. I have places to practice should I want to put a few shells thru it. And...only having sight in my left eye, to aim a pistol I'd need to go left handed. not comfy at all. so thats what brought me here..thanks for your valid opinions, but in this case i'm gonna do what i'm gonna do.:cool:
 

smk506

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Do they make those shorties in 20gauge? To be honest for home defense out of that length barrel at average home distances I can’t see the 20 not performing admirably and it would probably be a bit easier to shoot.
 

Bigfoot410

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Do they make those shorties in 20gauge? To be honest for home defense out of that length barrel at average home distances I can’t see the 20 not performing admirably and it would probably be a bit easier to shoot.
Si.

 

Deftone

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If you like the spread and safe penetration of a shotgun but want the maneuverability of a handgun, you can always get a Taurus Judge or S&W Governor .410/.45 or get shotshells for your hand gun.
 

Bownse

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i admit it, i can't read 399 pages to see if we settled this already...in the arena of shot guns for home defense, what does anyone think about one such as the Remington 870 tac 14 ? or the Mossberg 590? these are very short barreled, with a hand grip instead of a stock, meant to be fired with both hands, and only a total length of just over 26 inches. pump action with 4 or 5 plus 1 capability. What say anyone? I am not one for firearms, for the most part. But I am 65 now and do not relish hand to hand combat with an intruder. We had the house next door involved in a home invasion type robbery, which is why i'm thinking bad ass 12 guage
Remember that the typical restrictions on left/right eye dominance are the same for a pistol as a long gun. You can hold stong hand and use the other eye when using a pistol (I have for years as I'm right-handed but left-eye dominant (20:150 in right eye).

Both are good. Since you can't get a shoulder behind them, something to consider is 20 ga instead of 12. Another thing to note is that you still need to aim a shotgun because at across-the-room distances you are NOT going to get a pattern larger than a dinner plate (and maybe smaller).

I have a regular 870 pump 12 ga. ( https://www.cabelas.com/product/Remington-Model-Express-Synthetic-Tactical-Pump-Action-Shotguns/709955.uts )

The issue with long guns in home defense is retention. Come around a corner and have the bad guy grab the bbl and he is fighting you with a lever (the length of the long gun) working for him. These "other" shotguns that ATF says aren't SBRs don't leave you with as much to grab to retain it as a more traditional shotgun with a stock.

Get some tactical training in whatever you select.

I would never recommend 410 for self defense. Too iffy. If you have a judge and load the first chamber with shot, the next with buck, then the rest with 45 LC, you still have to fend off an attacker while trying to get to the 3rd round. Remember that LEOs have learned that 21 feet is "grappling distance" because a determined attacker can close that distance so quickly (1.5 seconds is the accepted average time).

 
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SteveC

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Ok, heres my take. pistol, OUT. the laws in jersey are ridiculous, it takes 6 months to get a permit. I said I am not much for fire arms, not that I have never held one. I know what a 12 guage feels like, I know its short but I am a beefy guy and know what to expect. I have places to practice should I want to put a few shells thru it. And...only having sight in my left eye, to aim a pistol I'd need to go left handed. not comfy at all. so thats what brought me here..thanks for your valid opinions, but in this case i'm gonna do what i'm gonna do.:cool:
Well, with that new information, I think that a shottie is a good call for you.

You still definitely want to shoot that thing, before you put it in service. I have tons of experience with shotguns and that thing is much different than you might expect. It took me by surprise the first time I fired one.
 

45WinMag

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Wrapped tape around the buttstock, tried to get the shape right. 7685 marked in white on the right, 7685 on a brown sticker on the left.









Correct number of holes in the handguard.





The rifle still looks a little too clean and new, but I am hesitant to artificially age it. Done badly, a relic job looks really fake. Just going to handle it a lot, and not clean anything but the internals when I fire it.

Overall, I think I have a decent approximation of #27. Have to work on cutting down a Brownells magazine soon (the Brownells "replica" 25rd magazines for this model are .5" too long)..
 

GunMonkeyINTL

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Wrapped tape around the buttstock, tried to get the shape right. 7685 marked in white on the right, 7685 on a brown sticker on the left.









Correct number of holes in the handguard.





The rifle still looks a little too clean and new, but I am hesitant to artificially age it. Done badly, a relic job looks really fake. Just going to handle it a lot, and not clean anything but the internals when I fire it.

Overall, I think I have a decent approximation of #27. Have to work on cutting down a Brownells magazine soon (the Brownells "replica" 25rd magazines for this model are .5" too long)..
I dig the details of the tape and numbers. If you want to add another detail of historical personalization, carry a double-section length of GI cleaning rod in the handguard (run it in the top vent hole, 2nd or 3Rd from the front) back along the barrel to the castle nut).

You'll see a lot of early Vietnam combat photos with that inch or two of cleaning rod sticking out the front of the handguard. All the early problems they had with the dirty propellant, and "no cleaning needed", caused a lot failure-to-extract, and the guys that carried them in combat would carry a cleaning rod there to be able to quickly knock out a stuck case.
 

GunMonkeyINTL

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Here's apparently another way they mounted them.
IMG_1532-1.jpg


I was looking for a pic of the handguard carry and found that. The first time I saw a photo of one sticking out of a handguard, I thought the gas tube had blown out or something. Then I was at a military museum with an old buddy and saw it in one of the backdrop photos, and asked him if they had a lot of failed gas tubes. He didn't make me feel like too much of a dumbass when he explained it to me.
 

45WinMag

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That would probably be a nice touch for a 601 through maybe an A1, but none of the forty-something prototypes were ever fielded. They were all R&D and demo rifles.
 

Bigfoot410

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The tape and numbers match a specific rifle. Prototype #27 has the same numbers and tape.
You could easily sell those examples to a museum or collector. Spectacular work. Not that I know anything about anything, but from the pics you have shown of the real thing and your replicas, you should maybe try building a few '59 Bursts. Probably do better than most at the accuracy. :)
 




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