Ideal rate of twist (MLP firearms and shooting thread)

scott1970

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The owner of Liberty Suppressors has come to my range to shoot a couple of times, and he has brought some fun stuff. One time he brought a rough looking, old WWII Russian PPS 43 sub machine. Of all the machine guns that have visited over the years, that was one of my favorites.

He brought a suppressed .308 quiet enough to hear the bullets whack trees.
 

45WinMag

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The owner of Liberty Suppressors has come to my range to shoot a couple of times, and he has brought some fun stuff. One time he brought a rough looking, old WWII Russian PPS 43 sub machine. Of all the machine guns that have visited over the years, that was one of my favorites.

He brought a suppressed .308 quiet enough to hear the bullets whack trees.
I have a Liberty Kodiak .22. Great can.
 
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Teledan

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Barrel nut tightened and gas system installed on the .308 pistol. It's complete.





I had to cut away a section of support on the rail because it covered the gas block screws. Used a cutting wheel and file, then touched up with Alumablack and paint (scuffed the paint a little so the black shows through in order to blend it in with the rest of the rail).

I’d love to see the ball of fire that comes out of that thing. Nice work!
 

GunMonkeyINTL

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I fully grasp subsonic.... I've shot long & short with cans before, all subsonic except some .22LR standard V just to hear the difference.......

My point was large calibers, as Robob's can will handle up to 300WinMag... I'd like to hear a bigger bore ballistic round through a can....just to satisfy my curiosity...
My uneducated guess is that 300 Win Mag sounds like.... .308. :)

Probably helps a great deal with flash-suppression, though. That may be its role in the reach-out-and-touch-someone caliber/loadings.
I’ve got a suppressed .300WM (actually a .338 suppressor), and it’s definitely quieter than an unsuppressed .308 going off. The at-muzzle dB is probably only 15-20 quieter than an unsuppressed .308 (which is still A LOT quieter), but back at the shooter’s position, it’s probably more like 25-30.

It’s hard to describe how it sounds, comparing it to another gun, just because the suppressed sound signature is so different. Regardless the peak dB, you still get that WUMP-HISS sound of the can, and you notice more of the down-range crack/tearing sound. It’s not OHSA hearing-safe, but I will shoot it in the open without ear-pro without any discomfort.

Shooting a .338 LM through the same suppressor is only a little louder, maybe 3-4 dB, but the sonic crack is VERY noticeably louder.

85C1E9FA-F19F-4992-BD32-4CED0D2F0A1E.jpeg
 

Bownse

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Ten months, I spent waiting for that stamp to arrive. There were times when I forgot that I'd ever even bought a suppressor. :laugh2:
Congrats. Mine took 10 months (Rugged Obsidian45) and 13 months (Rugged Razor 762) respectively.

Hard for me to imagine a can toning down 7.62 projectile and/or case based cartridges...

I'd like to hear one in person.... No way to really record it as cam mics have auto compression, YTube compresses everything, etc....
True auto-volume control on phones (and prior to that, mics and environment chosen) make them had to tell. DbA reading help with that but anything able to test about 126 DbA are expensive to even rent. The Rat Shack meter I have caps out at 126 DbA and the output of my suppressed .308 is more than that near the shooter's ear.

With that in mind, here are 2 samples with the pistol being shot in all variations are a comparison.


 
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GunMonkeyINTL

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Congrats. Mine took 10 months (Rugged Obsidian45) and 13 months (Rugged Razor 762) respectively.
I’ve got six stamps in the Inalienable Human Right queue right now (though one is an AOW F4 to F4, individual to trust, so the wait on that one is irrelevant). I have to visit the guys in the arms room in Martinsburg next month. I’m going to see if I can get an introduction down the hall, and see about getting a “batch approval”. It supposedly does happen, so we’ll see.
 

45WinMag

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I’ve got six stamps in the Inalienable Human Right queue right now (though one is an AOW F4 to F4, individual to trust, so the wait on that one is irrelevant). I have to visit the guys in the arms room in Martinsburg next month. I’m going to see if I can get an introduction down the hall, and see about getting a “batch approval”. It supposedly does happen, so we’ll see.
I'm dropping a Form 1 on an SBR next month (607 replica). I usually file it and forget it.
 

45WinMag

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Form 1s are only taking a couple weeks, if you e-file them.
Can you e-file as an individual? I thought it was just trusts, and with the CLEO signature gone, there's really not much reason to go with a trust anymore.
 

GunMonkeyINTL

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Can you e-file as an individual? I thought it was just trusts, and with the CLEO signature gone, there's really not much reason to go with a trust anymore.
You can file as an individual. You never get a physical stamp; they just email you a PDF (which is a separate rant I’m liable to go on; I mean, I MEAN... I MEEEEAAAANNNN.... if they insist... if they INSIST on using the antiquated tax-stamp system, and they want $200 for the silly thing... then give me my damned stamp! Right?)....anyway... yes, you can e-file an F1 as an individual.

I disagree about the trusts, though. CLEO sign-off, if that was an issue for you, was only one reason to use trusts. There are two other huge benefits:

1- there is no issue with having them accessible to people you live with. Ex: I live in the middle of nowhere, and our main porch/chicken coop/coyote rifle is a .357 lever gun with a .45 can on it. It sits behind the front door for quick access. The .22 in the kitchen drawer has a can. Heck, even our bedroom closet AR has a can on it. All the people who are ever allowed to be at my house when I’m not there (and there aren’t many) are Responsible-Persons on the trusts for those cans. Anything I keep in a safe, can also be a safe my wife knows the combination to. That’s a no-go on individual F4 approvals.

B- if your heir is also an RP on the trust, they can take immediate possession, should you become dead. Normally, the ATF will send a local field agent to come get yo’ shit, sit on yo’ shit until the rightful heir can be sorted out, and then process a F5 (tax-free transfer for government end-use, and civilian heirs), but who knows how long that will all take to sort out? They normally expedite a F5 to get it out of their arms room, but, with a trust, your heir (if they’re an RP) can take it immediately, and hold it for the trust until their F5 clears.


I do all my stuff on individual trusts, now (hence the AOW I’m transferring back to “myself”). I bought a quality trust, then broke it into Word. Every NFA item goes on its own trust, titled the serial of the item.

With one big trust, you either have to send in everyone’s pictures, prints, and 5320s for each new transfer, or you have to remove them as RPs until the new stamp comes. With a new trust for each item, I’m the only RP when the F4 gets filed, and the others don’t get added until the stamp comes.

Look into getting a trust set up. It will save you from having to think about paying $200 per item just to transfer them into one later.
 

smk506

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I got my trust exactly for the reasons gunmonkey listed above. My family can use my stuff without worrying about it, I don’t need to fret over who has access to what and in the event I kick the bucket it’s a non issue.

Now that said, those were the reasons, the reality is that no one besides my dad had any actual inclination to be on it and I only ever bought the one .22 suppressor instead of the heaps of them I anticipated getting. :laugh2:

I’m still glad I have it, one day I’ll get some more stuff for it and if it ever became prudent for any reason to transfer my collection entirely it’s all ready to go.
 

THDNUT

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If one sells their class III weapon or suppressor (or SBR) don't throw your tax stamp away, it's worth money to stamp collectors. Newer issue stamps bring at least $20. Hey, enough (almost) for a case of beer.

The original series 1934 stamps bring the highest prices. :naughty:
 

GunMonkeyINTL

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If one sells their class III weapon or suppressor (or SBR) don't throw your tax stamp away, it's worth money to stamp collectors. Newer issue stamps bring at least $20. Hey, enough (almost) for a case of beer.

The original series 1934 stamps bring the highest prices. :naughty:
They are. The odd thing is that the AOW stamp is often the most desirable, even though it's only $5, because it's red (instead of gray) and much less common than the $200 one.
 

GunMonkeyINTL

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I got my trust exactly for the reasons gunmonkey listed above. My family can use my stuff without worrying about it, I don’t need to fret over who has access to what and in the event I kick the bucket it’s a non issue.

Now that said, those were the reasons, the reality is that no one besides my dad had any actual inclination to be on it and I only ever bought the one .22 suppressor instead of the heaps of them I anticipated getting. :laugh2:

I’m still glad I have it, one day I’ll get some more stuff for it and if it ever became prudent for any reason to transfer my collection entirely it’s all ready to go.
Hey, a little bird told me that e-file F1s only take a couple weeks. Time for those SBR lowers you always wanted. :)
 

GunMonkeyINTL

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Any Other Weapon

Short shotguns without a shoulder stock, cane-guns, shoot-through holsters etc.

Anything that's not a rifle (or SBR), shotgun (or SBS), pistol, silencer, or "destructive device"

I'll post a pic of mine when my work phone charges back up.

ETA: "shotguns" in a pistol format are the most common because a "rifle" in a pistol format is just a "pistol". The NFA definitions are based heavily around whether the bore is "grooved" and whether the weapon is "designed to be fired from the shoulder"... Which is where the whole SBR, SBS, AOW, and even the braced-pistol AR and AK come from.
 
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THDNUT

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I wonder how many people get approved for a destructive device tax stamp?

"I want to own a grenade or a claymore and I'll pay $200 for the privilege to set it off." :laugh2:

I don't imagine too many people get tax stamps for these kinds of things.

Now, I know that rifles above .50 caliber are in this category.
 

GunMonkeyINTL

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What's an RP?

Also, thanks for the very informative post!
Responsible Person... essentially an officer in your trust (think of a Trust like an LLC). Most gun trusts are set up so that you can add other people as RPs, at which point they can be in possession of the property controlled by the trust.



Here’s a pic of that AOW.
I think (don’t know, but think) it’s the only 12ga O/U AOW from a major manufacturer in the US. The unique requirements for an AOW shotgun to come-to-be have made it really difficult to end up with an O/U shotgun in that format. If you were to make one yourself, from scratch (even the receiver, since it can’t ever have had a shoulder stock touch it), you could F1 it as an AOW, but an AOW F1 is $200, so most people would go ahead and make it an SBS, so they had the option of putting a stock on it.

This one was made as a prototype door breacher for a unit that shall remain nameless.
99E57DDA-FA6E-435C-B8CA-7C066398552A.jpeg
 




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