I wish Epiphone would do.....

The_Sentry

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I think most companies with a huge market hold or even a monopoly have very little risk of losing many customers...

Look at walmart, I'm not sure youve investigated their business model, but it works like many companies today. They are still doing quite well despite countless abuses on empoyees and customers. If or when they fall, the people responsible for the ethics of the company won't pay the price - they'll walk away with millions and let the share holders clean up the mess.

Personally I just think you're pissing into the wind...but I guess many would label me a nihilistic, jaded, ignorant moron...

Epiphone isn't Wal Mart though......and if they considers themselves as such, they will cease to function. Epiphone has gone under once before....

My belief...if I was pissing into the wind (as stated), I doubt this thread would still be read weeks after I wrote it. Furthermore, any time someone mentions something towards gaining addititional revenue towards the market, writing it off (the potential to make more money) is asinine IMHO.

I do not think you are a jaded moron at all...quite the opposite. (I've read your posts...:thumb: ) But if I think Epi should put out a better product, and I have an idea of what I'd like to see, sure I'll mention it.

One would think at this point Gibson would make pains to ensure that every single "pure" aftermarket part has as many potential customers as possible, and this would certainly include the Epiphone clones which cannot currently utilize many of the components. If something is mentioned to make life easier for the customer, it should be considered...after all, they're paying the bills, and they're buying the guitars, aren't they?

Epiphone really needs to address the aftermarket parts and modders. I have heard countless times that this is a relatively small percentage, but I have serious doubts about this as far the product is concerned. It would appear that many who are of an intermediate level in terms of playing or interest inevitably end up modifying these guitars in some way, shape, or form. If Epiphone and Gibson do not make attempts to corner as much of the market after the guitar is sold, and they lose revenue, they have no one but themselves to blame.

Furthermore, if they make decisions which result in a loss of market, they have no one but themselves to blame. Back to the Wal Mart comparison...many might believe that Epiphone did have a pretty good hold of the inexpensive archtops....I suspect they will not occupy this slot for much longer with so many competitors (including Fender with their acquisition of Gretsch guitars) breathing down their throats.

Eh, who knows. No one holds the lion's share or the hot seat indefinitely. Perhaps it would be for the best if Epiphone and Gibson began to turn a tin ear to their own customers....I'm certain a loss of revenue would arguably end this second run for Epiphone, put Gibson on the backburner in exchange for unabashed asian shredder guitars, and of course give Fender the lion's share of everything in between.

No, Epiphone is not Wal Mart....
 

Akahito

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I think most companies with a huge market hold or even a monopoly have very little risk of losing many customers...

Look at walmart, I'm not sure youve investigated their business model, but it works like many companies today. They are still doing quite well despite countless abuses on empoyees and customers. If or when they fall, the people responsible for the ethics of the company won't pay the price - they'll walk away with millions and let the share holders clean up the mess.

Personally I just think you're pissing into the wind...but I guess many would label me a nihilistic, jaded, ignorant moron...
However, Epiphone is not Walmart: They don't serve everybody's needs. Hell, they're barely serving their own needs and interests. They're holding onto a hollow outline of what once was tradition, and a lineup of copy guitars every other make has their own versions of, many of which are of better construction and more refined design.
However right you are that as long as Gibson is popular, Epiphone will be popular, and that yes in the sense Epiphone is like Walmart - that as long as they're stuck to a more popular brand of products, they will survive (some might even say 'prevail') - I'm sure that you as well as Epiphone understand that this situation can't last forever.
Musical instrument prices have been coming down steadily for well the past decade, and as such more and more people have been taking up on playing musical instruments. That trend has evidently come to a stall now, I don't have to explain why, it's obvious enough. People will begin wanting more bang for their buck, now that they've seen what the industry trend had been showing them. Acknowledged, the majority of us aren't gearheads who bother to think about this sort of nonsense and just play whatever feels right, but if it didn't matter to the people in this thread, or if it didn't matter to the people who care for the name on the headstock, what would we be here debating over in the first place? There was a time when Chevrolet was the only serious choice when it came to buying a good, reliable, long lasting car. Now, I know most people wouldn't touch a new Chevy with a stick. It's the same with Epiphone: You can't sell musical instruments like groceries, neither as you can sell cars as such, and label all anomalies as "just the way things are".
 

tlbob

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I absolutely agree that they are intentionally making it difficult to upgrade an Epi with Gibson parts, and when I say "they", I mean Gibson. It's probably not Epiphone's decision at all. If Epiphone wants to improve its quality or compatibility, or change the target price range, they have to get approval from the parent company. At least in Les Pauls, I can't imagine that Gibson will let them get too similar.

But to Sen's original point, that doesn't rule out other models where Gibson doesn't dominate. It would be good if they focused on hollowbodies, for example.

Does anyone know if Epi owners buy a lot of guitars per person? I only have one guitar, and am unlikely to buy more (because I'm just not very good). If Gibson is thinking that I eventually want to upgrade to the real deal, their research is faulty. As mentioned, Guitar Hero got a lot of people to try their hands, but most won't go further.

Anyway, great thread.
 

Yogi

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Does anyone know if Epi owners buy a lot of guitars per person?

Well Right now I own:

USA John Mayer Limited Edition Strat
MIK Epi Lucille
Squier affinity Strat
MIC Gibsun Res Paul
Samick Acoustic/electric

Which is kind of light for me. Around last fall I owned something like 7 or so guitars, and I have owned about 9-10 at one time before. Now that I'm getting to a transition point in my life ( College to Real-world, from Dorms/Parents place to paying rent and bills) I can't really afford to buy a lot of guitars. But once me and my girlfriend get cushy jobs, I will explode. She promised if I spend big bucks on a wedding ring for her, she'll get me a Gibson ES-335. Im gonna hold her to it :D
 

Eric052492

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tmk...gibson tuners fit fine on an epi so long as they are the larger ones and not kluson style, those require a bushing to work correctly. i swapped on some nickel plated gibson tuners on my epi studio and it was a direct swap...no sanding or drilling.

seriously im amazed at the nitpicking...enlarging pot holes??? making quick connects for pickups???

sorry if the pot holes arent perfectly sized, but what korean/japanese/chinese guitar is. most use alpha pots...not that alpha pots are all that bad...

i upgraded my pickups and it took me about 20 minutes, most of that was loosening the strings and mounting the rings...i don't get the issue...plus most guitarists are going to have to solder quick connect plugs on their pickups they buy. to me, it seems pointless...

some of your points about the history of the brand date back almost 100 years...brands change. american car/motorcycle companies used to be the standard that everyone was judged by, now much of that attention has shifted to the european and more so the asian markets.

whatever tho, some people will never be happy. and for those people, they should have probably bought a gibson anyway :laugh2:

I did use the larger ones, the new tuners overlapped the old holes by such a small amount that I couldn't just screw them in.
 

Leumas

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So many points, sorry, I'm not going to try and keep them straight, just offer up what sticks out in my head.

I have an '08 "Custom Shop" Casino and I love it. It does a lot of things very well, but no, I would not own it as my only guitar. So at least in my case, this Epi owner buys a lot of guitars per person.

Quality Control, IMO, only goes as far as people are willing to let you get away with...as long as these guitars are selling Gibson/Epi isn't going to spend the money to upgrade their lower tier line. My prior experience with Epiphone was a '95 LP standard, and what a pile of garbage that was. I got it as a backup guitar before I really knew what I was doing. It had some sort of plain metal inlays, and by the time I gave it away I could lower the pitch of the strings simply by pushing the guitar forward by the headstock with my index finger while it was strapped to me. Now since then I've played many Epi LP's of much higher quality, but people don't soon forget these things.

I agree, Epi would do themselves a lot of good by reinvigorating their hollowbody/archtop line. While I was looking for what ended up being the Casino, I actually had a deeper hollowbody in mind, specifically a sheraton, and damn if I couldn't find one new anywhere. I played an Ibanez whatever hollow thing they have, and it was ok but it reeked of cheapness, so I believe there is a good market to be had in this area.

And lastly, kind of reiterating a prior point, but who is the target market of Epiphone's knock-offs? People who want Gibsons but don't want to spend that much dough, mainly kids. Now, before I inadvertantly insult the many Epi owners who own great instruments (and there are some great ones to be had) and use them to their fullest potential, you can't deny the fact that a LARGE number of Epi customers are beginners and kids who want a cool-looking guitar, and either spend their own limited cash, or get the guitar given to them by parents who want to save cash. When such a large percentage of their buyers don't necessarily know what exactly to look for quality wise, that gives them the leeway to keep doing business as usual. Getting back to the first point made in the original post, the knock-offs are the cash cow...and from a corporate stand-point, history be damned when you have a cash cow.

Anyway, kind of rambling? Yes, sorry. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it is.
 

Horse

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tmk...gibson tuners fit fine on an epi so long as they are the larger ones and not kluson style, those require a bushing to work correctly. i swapped on some nickel plated gibson tuners on my epi studio and it was a direct swap...no sanding or drilling.

seriously im amazed at the nitpicking...enlarging pot holes??? making quick connects for pickups???

sorry if the pot holes arent perfectly sized, but what korean/japanese/chinese guitar is. most use alpha pots...not that alpha pots are all that bad...

i upgraded my pickups and it took me about 20 minutes, most of that was loosening the strings and mounting the rings...i don't get the issue...plus most guitarists are going to have to solder quick connect plugs on their pickups they buy. to me, it seems pointless...

some of your points about the history of the brand date back almost 100 years...brands change. american car/motorcycle companies used to be the standard that everyone was judged by, now much of that attention has shifted to the european and more so the asian markets.

whatever tho, some people will never be happy. and for those people, they should have probably bought a gibson anyway :laugh2:

i think everyone has a point here, indeed reality in completely subjective...

Sentry, like me, yearns for the old values of caring for the customer, and part of Epiphones appeal is that they to go back years and we look to them for a GOOD alternative to the Gibby.

i myself bemoan the quality of woods used, and stongly hold that other cheaper alternatives use better constuction techniques and woods, so Epi should too.

I also agree with you, its pissing in the wind as this is a cynical money making world now, but hey, lets not give up saying what we think to be right bro :thumb:
 

The_Sentry

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i think everyone has a point here, indeed reality in completely subjective...

Sentry, like me, yearns for the old values of caring for the customer, and part of Epiphones appeal is that they to go back years and we look to them for a GOOD alternative to the Gibby.

i myself bemoan the quality of woods used, and stongly hold that other cheaper alternatives use better constuction techniques and woods, so Epi should too.

I also agree with you, its pissing in the wind as this is a cynical money making world now, but hey, lets not give up saying what we think to be right bro :thumb:

Yeah, you're definitely right about that, Dan. I guess I don't understand why Epi can't be to Gibson what the Made in Mexico Fenders are to their US counterparts. :hmm:
 

klohiq

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Yeah, you're definitely right about that, Dan. I guess I don't understand why Epi can't be to Gibson what the Made in Mexico Fenders are to their US counterparts. :hmm:

would be nice...fender seems to have a better idea of what the customer wants...or maybe its just that profitability and customer needs parallel each other whereas gibby has a different market approach. in any event, i think my next guitar will be a usa fender
 

djwilbanks

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This is why I buy used Gibsons. Let someone else have the headache of setting it up and fixing its inherent flaws.
 

pcorajr

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Great Post, I agree with you on everything you have mentioned.

Gibson Will soon learn that they are going to have to provide a good quality instrument with the Epi headstock because times are changing, And the economy is not so great.

You should see what Fender is doing now specially with the Squier Series. There are 2 Squier models that are the best bang for the buck and rival soe of the MIM / MIA fenders with a few hundred dollars worth of Upgrades.

Also notice that the last Price bump done by gibson was right before thigs turned sour with the economy. Fender did the same and i think this is going to be their last chance.There is no way I would pay more than 1k for a guitar. And I am not alone in that. Notice that a lot of MIJ guitars are starting to make their way to the hands of US guitar players. MIF are still a bit of taboo and trail and error when it comes to getting them state side but that will eventually change.

I had my money ready for a MIJ Edwards but changed my mind because I did not want to put up with the hassle and worries of getting a guitar shipped. I See this becoming less and less of a problem now. and soon we will find a genius who will start selling these for a profit and they will claim the spot the MIJ elitist once had.

One small disagreement we might have is concerning the Prophesy Line. I think they are utter crap directed at the hardcore metal player. A section of the marked that is already occupied by ESP and Schecer (Spelling). To me LP = Tradition and Epi and Gibson Need to start innovating in other areas.

the vintage RI area is very well coverd with what they offer. Let the Heavy Metal kids enjoy their Prophesy line, and now work on figuring out a middle of the marked Guitar for us enthusiast who are willing to meet you halfway. If you need guidance go look at what PRS is doing.
 

pcorajr

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.

They also need to bring back a '57-ish Goldtop Les Paul with humbuckers.

I been Waiting for one of these for ever.

For a long time I've been wanting them to make a '59 Les Paul "re-issue" and I'm glad to see they have one coming out soon.

I was under the impression that this wouild only sell in JP? Correct me if I'm wrong.

But I'll bet it's a limited run and they'll all be sold out and the only way to get one is on Ebay later on........ like what happened with the Slash Les Pauls.

I was so pissed at the fact that they did this with the Slash LP

Which brings me to my final point....... I wish they wouldn't do such limited runs of these cool guitars!!!!!

The only problem is that if they dont call it Limited edition then they dont have a reason to ask 1k for them.

Those things sold like hotcakes....... and I never got the chance to get one. :(


But I'm thinking if I ever get a '59 R.I. Les Paul.... I'm gonna go with a nice Gibson R9. I'll only be truly happy with that.

I have a better one yet, bring back the elitist models and make them part of your normal production. Why should i play 3k+ for things that do not really warrant that much more money. Things like Long tenon and standard sized hardware/parts.


Great post
 

Mark H

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I have to agree about the replacment parts...or lack there of? Why won't Gibson inforce their sizing standards to well themselfs. I suspect that it is cheeper to use Chineese aka metric over there?
I tried to put a pick gard on mine using a Gibson OE part and had a good 1/2 hr. of sanding to fit it between the pups. And forget about finding any Kluson type tuners in black for a blacked out LE I have. They could make good $ selling these parts? Just pull a few boxes of parts off the ass. line and sell them to GC? Easy,,, Done ,,, Fixed? Right?

Fender has done the same thing in sizing with their Squire line too?


PS I dig your Custom nice color... but not an Epi?.:thumb:
 

monkeyboy

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I really wish that they would make a TRUE re-issue of the early 60's coronets and wilshires with the correct style batwing headstock and mini PAF humbuckers or single coils. The ones that they have put out just havent been the same.
 

The_Sentry

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I have to agree about the replacment parts...or lack there of? Why won't Gibson inforce their sizing standards to well themselfs. I suspect that it is cheeper to use Chineese aka metric over there?
I tried to put a pick gard on mine using a Gibson OE part and had a good 1/2 hr. of sanding to fit it between the pups. And forget about finding any Kluson type tuners in black for a blacked out LE I have. They could make good $ selling these parts? Just pull a few boxes of parts off the ass. line and sell them to GC? Easy,,, Done ,,, Fixed? Right?

Fender has done the same thing in sizing with their Squire line too?


PS I dig your Custom nice color... but not an Epi?.:thumb:

I have to admit I'm perplexed by the lost revenue by Gibson/Epiphone for not addressing the aftermarket in terms of parts. Even if it is metric, Epi could probably still launch a division that ate into the profits and the parts could feasibly find their way on non-Epiphone guitars that have metric components.

~S

(PS: That guitar in my sig? Nah....it's not an Epi. That's what I'm planning on being buried with......:D )
 

redcoats1976

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actually i think epi does a pretty decent job.i have owned three of their les pauls and an overweight 13 pound gibby les paul which i sold a couple of years ago .also had a dot,a casino,about 4 strats and a ric330.the only one that had issues that annoyed me was the gibson.i felt for a couple of grand it shouldnt have saddle buzzing issues(i fixed it at home)i admit that i buy,sell and trade guitars like there is no tomorrow...oh yeh,forgot the epi flying v and the chet atkins SST under the bed...did i mention that i love guitars?in retropect i probably shouldnt have sold the dot a couple of years ago,at least im down to 8 guitars now.i am glad to see they brought back the goldtop...might be next years GAS for me.
 

DarrellRocker

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You can't post a youtube video and say "It's hard to tell the difference in sound quality" Several reasons why: 1) Camera mics aren't exactly top of the line for picking up the full spectrum of sound. In fact they are far from it. Very limited. 2) Youtube compresses the heck out of the videos, so any sound clarity that would be there to distinguish the two is going to be mostly lost. 3) Most computer speakers aren't good enough. Now, if you're comparing a $100 guitar vs. a $2000 guitar, yeah, you'd probably hear the difference even w/ the aforementioned items. But comparing a very good guitar (Epi Hollowbody) to a great guitar (the Gibson), well, you probably just won't hear the small difference in sound quality.
 

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