I Think 2019 Will Be a Game Changer

DanD

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As far as neck shapes they do all differ but Gibson does use a specific CNC program for the neck shape. For TH they were CNCd twice and were very close to finished product.

That TH program was from a '59 ...and measured .90 @ the 1st. Most CS Rs measured that same shape and size for a couple years.

My '14, '15 and early '17 all had the same shape and only the '15 deviated to .89.

Watching new arrivals at WW for a few years while I was buying showed that most R9s, except CCs, were very close in size. It wasn't until later in '17 when the Carmelita carve was introduced [after all the repurposed guitars were sold and Gibson restarted production] that R9s started showing up with .86 @ 1st necks.

Now we're seeing a more variable neck size.

Maybe Gibson is changing up the CNC program from time to time now. But for a few years neck size varied only by 1 or 2 hundredths of an inch.

I sometimes wished I'd have waited because that Goldilocks rounded .86 neck is by far my favorite.
 

strat1701

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As far as neck shapes they do all differ but Gibson does use a specific CNC program for the neck shape. For TH they were CNCd twice and were very close to finished product.

That TH program was from a '59 ...and measured .90 @ the 1st. Most CS Rs measured that same shape and size for a couple years.

My '14, '15 and early '17 all had the same shape and only the '15 deviated to .89.

Watching new arrivals at WW for a few years while I was buying showed that most R9s, except CCs, were very close in size. It wasn't until later in '17 when the Carmelita carve was introduced [after all the repurposed guitars were sold and Gibson restarted production] that R9s started showing up with .86 @ 1st necks.

Now we're seeing a more variable neck size.

Maybe Gibson is changing up the CNC program from time to time now. But for a few years neck size varied only by 1 or 2 hundredths of an inch.

I sometimes wished I'd have waited because that Goldilocks rounded .86 neck is by far my favorite.
Sorry but I beg to differ on the '15 TH program's 59 models. They may have tried to spin it as they took measurements from a real 59 and plugged those numbers into CNC's but of all the TH 59 models I played and owned, NONE were .900 at the first. They were ALL larger. Shit you not I played a 58 TH from the same 2015 year which was smaller than the 59 models. IMHO that TH line was not accurate by any means in terms of neck carves for either 58 or 59 models. Yes I get the variance of originals but shit, they are not just close they are on average way WAY fucking off.

The only TH /2015 model which has an accurate to vintage spec neck is CC24 because CD kept having them redo it because Gibson and thier fabled CNC machine were still getting it wrong. It was not until the 18 models and certainly the 19's that we're seeing closer to the average variance specs now, which is what they should have been for the past 6yrs now.....

IF they were really using their CNC machine with specs from originals, riddle me how they can have a direct original Collector's Choice model burst, scanned it in down to the 1000th of an inch, and then use said CNC machine to cut the neck and even AFTER hand sanding and finishing and TM aging on the neck, present me with a neck which is .930 at the first fret when the original burst measurement of the guitar they were trying to replicate is .886 or .887. Their CNC machine is obviously not being run right to end up with shit like that. Either that or they just didn't ( and don't) care, which was probably the case when HJ was running the show.
 

PauloQS

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Although every neck on the original bursts were different, one can talk about an average and standard deviation for that matter.

According to Wildwood, the necks on R9s slimmed down in 2018. So at least for one year there was a slimming of the necks of R9s. I did not measure every R9 neck I’ve ever played, so I don’t have actual data, but only impressions. Based on what I’ve tried, I’m lead to believe that between 2013 and 2019 the neck on R9s have on average slimmed over time. On average means that you can find examples of, say, 2015 necks slimmer than, say, 2017, but the average of 2017 R9s is slightly slimmer than the 2015 average.

Although the necks are made mostly by CNC, they are hand sanded afterwards, which contributes to a larger variation relative to a neck that completely carved and finished on a CNC.

Lastly, I confess I’ve never played an actual burst. I can only rely on what other people who did play them claim. The count is now up to 4 different sources. They are Joe Bonamassa, Norman’s Rare Guitars, That Pedal Show and just recently the person who replied to my previous comment.
 

freebyrd 69

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From my experience, the 2019's are not different in the neck shape, from any other year. They all differ depending on the guitar.

The Originals differed so much that IMO their is no "TRUE" 1959 neck shape. They went from somewhat fatter (not 1958 fat) to somewhat skinny (not 1960 skinny) in that same year. lol

The Original 1959's were just "Standards" in their time.

There was no super wood selection or magic recipe. The Gibson employees just made them from the stock that was available at the time and made them as production models.

IMO it is all BS and limited status that drives up the previous models prices, since no one wanted to buy them in 1958-1959, so Gibsons production of them was low, and production became so low they were discontinued.

Now the Originals are desired and hyped for mega money but IMO the desire is more due to rarity than actual tone and playability. Most just listen to YouTube Videos and think the tone is a dream but in reality it is the regular that has always been there from Gibson.

Time and perception really blurr the eyes and ears IMO. lol
I agree on the crazy prices of the original bursts, but that’s true with a lot of things. A vintage Mach 1 Mustang won’t get you from point A to point B any better than a 2019 will, but go compare prices.

I’ve had my hands on a half dozen 19’s, and the necks on those were definitely shaped differently than the previous years, with exception of the Shanks (I owned several and they were all the same neck) and the Ace. I can only speak for the few original bursts that I have been fortunate enough to fondle. Although I had a pretty in depth conversation with Joe B about reissues and originals. Two things we agreed on were Braz ain’t worth the extra $ and how wrong the neck shapes were on the vast majority of reissues. YMMV
 

Pageburst

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To further your car analogy, look at the cost of an original Ferrari California compared to a recent new one. The original California has a similar Burst like multiple premium to a recent new one. Despite the fact the newer California will run rings around the original, that in no way ever diminished the rarity, desirability or historical significance of the original car.

It always seemed strange to me that some folks need to justify the cost of a Burst by talking about some unquantifiable sonic mojo the Burst has over current Historics. Of course, this old wood magic is never born out by any objective tests. The vintage 50s Les Pauls I've had the pleasure of playing were by in large great. I can't say I felt that most histofics were consistently very good to great until 2013. Now, I have no desire to own a Burst or GT for tonal reasons. I am still looking for an original P90s GT because owning a piece of history you can play and enjoy would be pretty cool in my book.

While value is always in the eye of the beholder, after buying a recent Brazilian Historic, I don't think I'd buy another Historic without a Brazilian board. The quality and silky feel of the Brazilian boards on my Historics are even better than the board on my 1966 ES345 and for that reason alone it's worth the price to me.

While I do think there is maybe too much emphasis placed on minutiae whose tonal or playability benefit cannot be quantified, buying a Gibson Les Paul with the correct species of wood doesn't fall in that category and to me worth the extra vig. Especially when that extra vig is a few thousand rather than a few hundred thousand dollars.

I agree on the crazy prices of the original bursts, but that’s true with a lot of things. A vintage Mach 1 Mustang won’t get you from point A to point B any better than a 2019 will, but go compare prices.

I’ve had my hands on a half dozen 19’s, and the necks on those were definitely shaped differently than the previous years, with exception of the Shanks (I owned several and they were all the same neck) and the Ace. I can only speak for the few original bursts that I have been fortunate enough to fondle. Although I had a pretty in depth conversation with Joe B about reissues and originals. Two things we agreed on were Braz ain’t worth the extra $ and how wrong the neck shapes were on the vast majority of reissues. YMMV
 

Justin_Case

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Until they make .......

On that note, the CS used to be just that, a CUSTOM shop, that would build pretty much whatever anyone wanted...provided they could afford them (minimum order run was around 25 guitars).
They still do - all the Wildwood Editions, CME has their own runs, Guitar Center too. Also the Made to Measure program is for the individual to " spec out " personal choice options.
 

efstop

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All this minutae amuses me. I pick up a guitar, I try the neck and I plug it in. If I like it, and I can afford it, I buy it. On the other hand, I don't buy historics because I can't afford one, and I'm not anal about the minutae...

I'll stay out of this section of the forum now :) but now and then you guys ought to reread a thread end to end.

Ciaozers.
 




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