I Think 2019 Will Be a Game Changer

Tim Plains

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
13,030
Reaction score
8,945
I hate the "____ was a good year" mentality but I'm going to go out on a limb and say 2019 specs will set the bar going forward.

I know we'll see the typical "2019 is the best year yet" and "Gibson got it right"...until the 2020s come out, but more than usual, and much like people have been telling others "just buy a 2013" when seeking advice on a purchase, I think we'll see "buy a 2019" for many years to come and 2019 will have a ripple effect on what we're accustomed to seeing.

A ripple effect you say?

Yes, I think Gibson offering unpotted pickups with Luxe Bees from the factory will have an adverse effect on the aftermarket and and you will not see people replacing them as frequently as with past model years.

One could argue that pot values will still vary but I highly doubt that 98% of people can tell the difference between a 473K pot and 504K pot, and I'm assuming that for most it wouldn't be enough of a difference to justify the swap.

I'll even go as far as to say that Rudi would buy a 2019 if he tries one putting an end to his Gibson hiatus. :laugh2:

Thoughts?
 

Attachments

framos

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
995
Reaction score
800
For one thing, same as with the pots, I also highly doubt that 98% of people can really tell the difference from the Luxe Bees to the 'fake' ones Gibson would previously shipped.
But yes, now that people know there are PIOs in their guitars, I agree that they won't go for modifications as fast as they used to. It was about time Gibson fixed that.

However, I'm not sure I would call it a 'game changer', though.
 
Last edited:

PierM

Premium Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2016
Messages
4,800
Reaction score
8,991
If we mean all the moves Gibson is taking (for the entire line USA/Memphis/CS), then yes, it's gonna be a game changer, or better, a game reset...since they are going back to their basics, doing more stuff right.

Said that, not sure this will change the Gibson game, in terms of sale....we'll see in a year or so. I think the biggest part of the internet complainers were just trolls that never really been in the Gibson market, so I'm not sure all these moves are going to raise their sales, I wish that for them, but not sure.
 

Frogfur

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Messages
20,018
Reaction score
35,910
I hate the "____ was a good year" mentality but I'm going to go out on a limb and say 2019 specs will set the bar going forward.

I know we'll see the typical "2019 is the best year yet" and "Gibson got it right"...until the 2020s come out, but more than usual, and much like people have been telling others "just buy a 2013" when seeking advice on a purchase, I think we'll see "buy a 2019" for many years to come and 2019 will have a ripple effect on what we're accustomed to seeing.

A ripple effect you say?

Yes, I think Gibson offering unpotted pickups with Luxe Bees from the factory will have an adverse effect on the aftermarket and and you will not see people replacing them as frequently as with past model years.

One could argue that pot values will still vary but I highly doubt that 98% of people can tell the difference between a 473K pot and 504K pot, and I'm assuming that for most it wouldn't be enough of a difference to justify the swap.

I'll even go as far as to say that Rudi would buy a 2019 if he tries one putting an end to his Gibson hiatus. :laugh2:

Thoughts?
I'm all for heading to the bar in 2019.
 

DarthPaul

Premium Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2016
Messages
711
Reaction score
1,990
I think the biggest part of the internet complainers were just trolls that never really been in the Gibson market, so I'm not sure all these moves are going to raise their sales, I wish that for them, but not sure.
+1
 

Tim Plains

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
13,030
Reaction score
8,945
I think the biggest part of the internet complainers were just trolls that never really been in the Gibson market
With the USA line, yes, but I'm not so sure about historics. The traditional complainers are the ones who bought guitars (plural) and changed everything about them they felt was "wrong" raging from tailpiece angles to plastics to full $$$$ makeovers.
 

PierM

Premium Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2016
Messages
4,800
Reaction score
8,991
With the USA line, yes, but I'm not so sure about historics. The traditional complainers are the ones who bought guitars (plural) and changed everything about them they felt was "wrong" raging from tailpiece angles to plastics to full $$$$ makeovers.
I don't think Gibson can handle that level of accuracy and nitpicking you could expect from a third party specialized brand (like mojoaxe, creamtone, throbak, wizz etc..). I also don't think Gibson is aiming to be an alternative to a perfect replica of a Burst, with every anal aspect being covered properly, like finish formula, chamfers profile, headstock edges, cavity routing appearance and methods, like heel/tenon construction, pickup creation and winding, overall construction process etc etc etc.. All this stuff can't really work for mass produced guitars, even for the Custom Shop. The streamlining always require some corner being cut. What they can do is to give the average customer, a better "perception" of what these guitars are, mostly with visual cues being more conform to originals (still, not at Replica level), or also some corksniffery thingy like caps being real PIO instead fake (still not sure if we can call those "real").

Cutting short, these changes on historics will probably make someone happier, but the hardcore guys will keep doing like before I believe.
 
Last edited:

DarthPaul

Premium Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2016
Messages
711
Reaction score
1,990
Get one, play it and quit look'n for stuff. The folks i make music with could care less about any of that stuff. They just make good music.
I was playing at a party a few weeks ago and a lady struck up a conversation about her son and his guitar (she bought the kid a '78 Explorer for his birthday).
At one point she asked me how old my guitar is.
I said "It's a 2017".
She looked confused and responded "Oh - so it's NEW?
Afterward, as I replayed the conversation over in my head - I had to laugh at myself.
I get so far into this Historic nitpickery that I forget that most people don't care or notice "spec changes" and the like.
My reaction felt like she "should have known" it wasn't old - I mean, doesn't everyone follow the Custom Shop?

Yeah, "normal" people don't know... or care.
 

Bobby Mahogany

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2012
Messages
22,784
Reaction score
34,488
I was playing at a party a few weeks ago and a lady struck up a conversation about her son and his guitar (she bought the kid a '78 Explorer for his birthday).
At one point she asked me how old my guitar is.
I said "It's a 2017".
She looked confused and responded "Oh - so it's NEW?
Afterward, as I replayed the conversation over in my head - I had to laugh at myself.
I get so far into this Historic nitpickery that I forget that most people don't care or notice "spec changes" and the like.
My reaction felt like she "should have known" it wasn't old - I mean, doesn't everyone follow the Custom Shop?

Yeah, "normal" people don't know... or care.
Maybe she had been "brainwashed" by her son, a guitar geek, about how he "had to" have a "real" Gibson,
albeit an old one, because the new ones are just "meh" and no serious musician could evolve with
a stinkin' new Gibson!
So she was just surprised to see a "real" musician playing a "meh" new Gibson!

Her son might be a member here!
Or will be soon.

:D
 

Bobby Mahogany

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2012
Messages
22,784
Reaction score
34,488
I agree that 2019 could be a game changer in the sense that the new CEO
has to make a statement with the direction Gibson is taking.
It's important to obliterate Henry from the collective memory :)D!).

So far the new production line models that we see are more in line with the taste of this
forum's members. That's good, I think, since it represents a will to make contact
with stuff that made Gibson guitars famous and timeless.
As for Historics and such, I think that it will remain a "perfection" pursuit
from its buyers and they will continue to upgrade to a "more like it" ideal.

I guess we'll see what the future will bring and how the market will react.
But in fact, 2019 HAS TO be a game changer.
 

DarthPaul

Premium Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2016
Messages
711
Reaction score
1,990
Maybe she had been "brainwashed" by her son, a guitar geek, about how he "had to" have a "real" Gibson,
albeit an old one, because the new ones are just "meh" and no serious musician could evolve with
a stinkin' new Gibson!
So she was just surprised to see a "real" musician playing a "meh" new Gibson!

Her son might be a member here!
Or will be soon.

:D
Yeah, apparently it was something he specifically wanted and she shopped for a year to find one. Good on her and lucky him.
Sorry for my overuse of quotation marks - it's a bad habit.
 

DanD

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
1,099
Reaction score
1,221
The return of ebony and rejection of richlite is a big step in the right direction for the incoming management team.

QC improvement along with a robust (and affordable) M2M program would also go a long way towards making 2019 a banner year.
 

jenton70

Premium Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
3,089
Reaction score
3,999
I think it will be for a lot of the reasons mentioned above. Bobby Mahogany's point regarding the new CEO making a statement is well-made in my opinion. The new CS guitars I've played over the past 6 years have been largely stellar and constantly improving. Historical accuracy aside, they're currently producing some incredible instruments. Add in the 2019 spec changes and I don't think they can miss right now.
 

Frozen Rat

Premium Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2016
Messages
327
Reaction score
458
... I think the biggest part of the internet complainers were just trolls that never really been in the Gibson market, so I'm not sure all these moves are going to raise their sales, I wish that for them, but not sure.
I think you are pretty spot on. A large % of people saying outlandish things tend to be one-off posters who never show up again, or "that guy" who injects Gibson hate in every post he thinks he can squeeze it into, ad nauseam. That alone isn't going to change because you have the same little groups of haters saying the same things about Fenders, or Taylors, [insert brand here]. Oh well. But—

Gibson needs to change one area drastically that they've been getting wrong for a long time in order to increase sales: treat their distributors better. Don't make such crazy demands on them for volume sales. Let lesser volume stores into the game. Let vendors have more leeway with MAP and Internet sales. If they modify all that to the better they'll move more gear. You already see a bit of a step in the right direction with their acoustics in the Generation Series that comes in about 1/2 the price of their equivalents in the brand. I want to walk into smaller stores and again see a few new Gibsons on the wall. I never understood why Gibson shut out smaller players; maybe each small store by itself doesn't amount to much, but taken as a whole across the globe that has to amount to a lot of potential sales.
 

rockstar232007

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
16,381
Reaction score
13,041
Until they make a USA-made LP, that looks identical (in shape, and specs) to their CS/Historic counterparts, I ain't buyin'.

There was/is absolutely no reason, other than upcharging, to build two, very different versions of the exact same guitars (this goes for the SG as well).

On that note, the CS used to be just that, a CUSTOM shop, that would build pretty much whatever anyone wanted...provided they could afford them (minimum order run was around 25 guitars).
 

filtersweep

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2012
Messages
1,247
Reaction score
1,663
So Gibson changes two ‘parts’ that are extremely easy to change? This makes it a game-changer?

Gibson has to keep mixing it up to keep selling reissues. The strategy is to create doubt in existing owners. It is a craptastic business model. Never perfect the reissue- or it is game over.
 




Top