I need to understand something about China and Russia

[DRF]

If we can be honest with ourselves we can see that foreign policy (on either side of the political spectrum ) has been driven by the needs and desires of the wealthy and powerful.

let's all remember that wherever we come from there are a lot of loving decent human beings out there from all walks of life and from all nationalities. Everyone has a Mum and Dad somewhere. .Loved ones and families. One cannot tarnish a whole nation for the sake of a few and that includes us too.

I agree. People can't see the real villans,or maybe we do but are to complacent or weak. What am I gonna do? put a bullet in the head of one of the war hawks-even if I managed to do that my life would be over.

 

[bigdaddy496]

we would lose the war anyway, anyone who has been deployed in the past 3-4 years will tell you the long list of crap you have to do to fire upon an insurgent is ridiculous. by the time you have done all the stupid steps, your ass is already stripped bacon. our r.o.e. for convoys was ridiculous.

we keep trying to be "better than that" and thats what costs us lives. we shoot an insurgent, we are required to give them aid and take them in as a p.o.w. . thats just retarded. walk up to them, shoot them again. we would get no better, that is, if we fought against enemies who had some spine and didnt use coward devices like i.e.d.s

 

[coreydm676]

ohh god more us dominates the world crap. we get that even here in canada.

 

[bertzie]

who had some spine and didnt use coward devices like i.e.d.s

General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper.

Just sayin'

 

[bildozr]

General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper.

Just sayin'

As much as I want to get angry at you for this post, I'm not gonna. I know the argument you're going to try to make, and I can see how you'll defend it well.

But I will say this. As stated above we have specific rules of engagement, and we have to go through an escalation of force. The enemy we're fighting does not, and utilizes terror and torture.

Like he stated, we have to provide first aid to them, and bring them in as a epow. They capture our soldiers and behead them.

 

[Hamtone]

This thread doesnt have much to do with current roe's or war drumming, or country pride, its just an observation that the general public (at least people I know) all get their knickers in a bunch when things turn to possibly involve China or Russia, and for the sake of conversation i started this thread discussing that, I dont see the knicker twist over them.
You also have to see that to fight with either of them would be a more conventional campaign and not a gorilla war.

Yes I do agree that the current roe's are stupid and backwards. I have friends deployed right now who were also in Iraq and if they were in a column that had been fired on they broke the convoy and located and closed with and destroyed the enemy, they are all a bit put off with their current mission in the stan

 

[bildozr]

Yeah that's more the point I was trying to make earlier. Everyone sees the current conflicts as a proper gauge for a large scale conflict with another world power.

It'd be a totally different ball game.
Let's not forget the Russians had a hard time there too.

But there's still bad blood with the Russians, and the old guys are still in charge, but we've got new generations. I don't have any issue with Russia. I view them differently then my grandparents probably do.

We're just not going to get into a conflict. There's nothing creating friction or tension.

 

[Phil47uk]

I've never met a Russian person as it is, but the interviews I've seen, and all the hype I hear is that these guys are stone cold and lack any human emotion.

But I know several Special Forces guys, I'm related to a couple, my Great Uncle was an SF Captain in Vietnam. But these guys in my experience are pleasant to talk to and you'd never guess at what they do unless they told you.

Except, in most cases they'll say something that'll drop your jaw. You could be having a conversation about anything, and some how a very graphic and violent sentence will pop in. They'll say it with a smile and without skipping a beat.

Different cultures.

Yeah but saying all Russians have no emotion is a bit like steoreotyping all Ameicans as being fat religious biggots who shoot anything that moves and think the world revolves around them, which as we know is totally ridiculous.

The same applies to any nationality. The Russian language and other slavic languages can often sound unemotional, compared to say English and emotive languages like Italian, but I can assure you they are exactly the same us any of us.
I often speak to my sons fiances dad in Moscow and a lovlier more generous guy you'd never wish to meet. He's a huge guy and built like a bear.
In the cold war he was an engineer working on the exact rockets that were pointing your way.
We have spoken about it many times and he said laughing, that back then they were just as scared of the lunatic Americans starting a nuclear war as you were of the lunatic Commies..
People are just people Bildozr. They aint a seperate species you know.
There are good people and bad people from every culture.
Perhaps you should try and talk to a few and you may find the indoctrinated stereotyping may melt away.

Haven't you seen this guy before on you-tube? Now don't tell me you can't see a sense of humour from a Russian.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyoAP10uKTk[/ame]

 

[coreydm676]

Yeah but saying all Russians have no emotion is a bit like steoreotyping all Ameicans as being fat religious biggots who shoot anything that moves and think the world revolves around them, which as we know is totally ridiculous.

The same applies to any nationality. The Russian language and other slavic languages can often sound unemotional, compared to say English and emotive languages like Italian, but I can assure you they are exactly the same us any of us.
I often speak to my sons fiances dad in Moscow and a lovlier more generous guy you'd never wish to meet. He's a huge guy and built like a bear.
In the cold war he was an engineer working on the exact rockets that were pointing your way.
We have spoken about it many times and he said laughing, that back then they were just as scared of the lunatic Americans starting a nuclear war as you were of the lunatic Commies..
People are just people Bildozr. They aint a seperate species you know.
There are good people and bad people from every culture.
Perhaps you should try and talk to a few and you may find the indoctrinated stereotyping may melt away.

Haven't you seen this guy before on you-tube? Now don't tell me you can't see a sense of humour from a Russian.

50 Cal Machine Gun VS. 250 Watermelons - YouTube

hes actually american. he has another channel called FPSkyle

 

[bertzie]

As much as I want to get angry at you for this post, I'm not gonna. I know the argument you're going to try to make, and I can see how you'll defend it well.

But I will say this. As stated above we have specific rules of engagement, and we have to go through an escalation of force. The enemy we're fighting does not, and utilizes terror and torture.

Like he stated, we have to provide first aid to them, and bring them in as a epow. They capture our soldiers and behead them.

That's what makes our guys the good guys, and them the bad guys.

 

[bildozr]

@Phil, I was talking about the Special units, not our nationalities themselves.

That's all I meant. We have two different cultures of training our guys.

 

[bigdaddy496]

lmao at the mcdonalds comments

 

[Phil47uk]

hes actually american. he has another channel called FPSkyle

Well obviously I know he's not in Russia, as they don't tend to have a McDonalds on every corner and 30 mph street signs dotted around small towns over there. I assumed he was Russian living in America. It doesn't really matter anyway. The guys vids are entertaining wherever he comes from.

My youngest sons fiance Anastasia is Russian from Moscow and she's not only got a great sense of humour, but she's also extremely bright. She is a supervisor of an animal sancutary here in the UK, speaks fluent English and picks up languages like there is no tomorrow, which is a darned sight more than most Brit girls of her own age.

 

[Phil47uk]

@Phil, I was talking about the Special units, not our nationalities themselves.

That's all I meant. We have two different cultures of training our guys.

Oh yeah of course there is a great cultural difference, as there is with most nationalities.
Take my sons finance for instance. Now for a Russian woman going to the shops with another Russian woman, they think nothing of saying to the woman they are with. "No I don't think you should wear that, your bums too big".
Now in the west, that would be taboo..

A while back she asked how long my wife and I had been married and I repiled. " Well let's just say you get less for first degree murder."
She was horrified and said that in Russia that would be an insult to the woman, yet over here, everyone including women would laugh.

Yeah, there certainly are differences, but then I suppose there also are when I visit my Swiss cousins, who are far more conservative than we are.

It would be interesting to see the differences in the military training of each country.
I know a retired major in the UK army and when I asked him what the Yanks were like, he said 'very good indeed , since they have formed a professional army', but prior to that in conscript days they were all over the place and crap.
But then one could say that about all armies. One professional is worth a hundred conscripts, who don't really want to even be there in the first place.
The Russians still have conscription and I think many ordinary conscript soldiers would probably rather be doing something else.

 

[Hamtone]

I wonder what its like for a dad to enjoy their childrens significant others..bettter yet any of the children and s.o's wanting to hang out with dad..lol

 

[The DUDE]

I think if everyone got over their xenophobia - actually traveled to these countries and got to know some good people there, most wouldn't view war in such a technical, cold, tactical manner.

It's no secret that Russians (Hell, even Germans) are still villified, mocked and dehumanized in America. I went to public school.

I know plenty of good people from Europe (east and west), Russia, Asia, Africa....even the Dutch aren't THAT bad

I can't imagine inflicting the horror of war upon them. People are people, wherever you go. At the core, we're not all that different. We all have the same desires and motivations.

We shouldn't be afraid of going to war with other countries just because of what might happen to US....we should also be worried about what will happen to THEM.

Governments wage wars. People suffer the consequences.

Can't we all just get along?

Imagine.

 

[geochem1st]

This thread doesnt have much to do with current roe's or war drumming, or country pride, its just an observation that the general public (at least people I know) all get their knickers in a bunch when things turn to possibly involve China or Russia, and for the sake of conversation i started this thread discussing that, I dont see the knicker twist over them.
You also have to see that to fight with either of them would be a more conventional campaign and not a gorilla war.

Yes I do agree that the current roe's are stupid and backwards. I have friends deployed right now who were also in Iraq and if they were in a column that had been fired on they broke the convoy and located and closed with and destroyed the enemy, they are all a bit put off with their current mission in the stan

Germany had the top tech of the day militarily during WWII, but that's not what makes or breaks war. Industrial capacity and resources make the difference when dealing with countries large than Rhode Island.

Next year China's economy will be larger than ours. They already have a good deal of manufacturing power, natural resources, and large human resources to stock a military.

I believe that as of today we could take them out, but will we still be able to in the near future if they keep growing like this?

 

[upl8tr]

"No I don't think you should wear that, your bums too big".

Pictures or it never happened.........

 

[lunchbox]

Governments wage wars. People suffer the consequences.