Humbucker sized P90 - SD vs GFS vs ???

[kspeed]

I'm looking for a set of P90's with vintage output to slap into a PRS. The only manufacturers I know of that make them in a humbucker case are Seymour Duncan and Guitar Fetish. I'm specifically thinking of the Phat Cats and Dream 90's, respectively.

Does anybody have experience with either of these sets, or other humbucker sized P90's?

 

[whytheflyband]

Lindy Fralin makes humbucker sized P90's so does Gibson and I also believe Kent Armstrong does as well. I honestly endorse anything Fralin does, I always get hoards of compliments on my guitar tone live and in the studio. I think their version is a P92 ?

Welcome to Lindy Fralin Pickups: The Finest Guitar Pickups Available Today!

I hear the Gibson ones are good but dont quite have the bite of regular P90's I dunno just going off the reviews.....

 

[huw]

A guy posting as "Chocolate Buddha" posted this on the LPF a while ago. I keep it arround as a good reference:

"A timely thread -- a friend and I just carried out an obsessive HB-sized P-90/P-90 like HB shootout to see what we liked best. At the outset, let me say that P-90s are my favored pu's, so I have been in search of their HB-sized sonic relatives for the last 4 or 5 years. Here are the results (completely subective of course) - The competing pu's (all properly paired sets for Nk and Br, RWRP in cases that apply):

Single Coils: Gibson P-94s, Kent Armstrong WPU900Cs, Harmonic Design Z-90s, Seymour Duncan Phat Cats, Rio Grande (Fat) Bastards

Humbuckers: Dec '04 Timbuckers, Dimarzio Bluesbuckers, Dimarzio Humbuckers From Hell

The pu's were swapped in and out of the following guitars that would be considered within the reach of an average dedicated tone nut: '02 LP R8, two '99 LP Standards, '85 SG Standard, '95 335 Dot RI, '81 335 Pro, '00 Epi LP Hollowbody Ltd. Ed.

These combinations were normed against the tone and response of the following genuine classics (all stock, except for the melody maker): '57 LP Special (single cut), '59 LP Special (double cut), '60 LP Special (double cut), '72 LP Goldtop '58 (like a '54 with the single wrapover tailpiece), mid '60's Melody Maker refitted with modern (new) dog-eared P-90's

All played thru these amps: '62 Brownface Pro, '65 BF Pro Reverb, '59 Bassman RI, Kendrick 2410 (4x10 tweed bassman clone), Kendrick 2112 (5e3 deluxe clone), Matchless Brave 1x12, Peavey Delta Blues 2x10 (re-tubed and re-speakered), UniValve (with all-Mullard EL34 and ECC83's) thru a Marshall 4x12 cab, Marshall JCM900 2x12 combo

The outcomes:

Harmonic Design Z-90s - Like P-90s on steroids. All the grittiness, detail and focus are there -- stinging highs, punchy mids, including the piano string bottom and growl -- but with incredible harmonic spread, girth and body compared with the vintage P-90's. Clear and articulate when clean, angry and nasty when pushed. More depth, volume and complexity than the real deal with less noise. These have the all important "organic" and dynamic characteristics. Equally great as a rhythm or lead pickup.

Seymour Duncan Phat Cats - Everything said about the Z-90s applies here too. In fact, it's remarkable and a bit disconcerting how similar they sound. A great plus is that these pu's have nickel covers (not an option for the HD's) which preserve somewhat a vintage look. Also very reasonable pricewise.

Kent Armstrong WPU900Cs - More well behaved that the real deal -- with slightly attenuated highs and compression by comparison. Definitely in the neighborhood, but with a bit less dynamics and spread. Looks very much like the Phat Cats -- great price!

Gibson P-94s - Most similar tonally to the vintage P-90s, but with slightly less detailed highs as with the Armstrongs. Again, a bit more civilized. Familiar but unconventional looks -- kind of like a DeArmond or a 60's european make.

Rio Grande Bastard and Fat Bastard - Normed against the real P-90s, these pu's seemed dull, muddy, overly compressed and middy. In fact, they sounded more like average conventional humbuckers than the humbuckers in the shootout. Lots of volume but terribly poor dynamics and no "3-D ness" to the sound. Quite disappointing, which made me suspect that there may be something wrong with this set given how many people seem to like this pu. Ironically, it has the best cosmetics of the single coil bunch -- great looking construction and plating.

Timbuckers - Am convinced that these must be as close as any recently made 'buckers will ever get to the soul of a vintage P-90. Of course there is the expected attenuation in the highs, but in this case it is only ever slightly less so. Warmer than a P-90 and rightly so, they nevertheless have those clear, articulate, organic, complex and dynamic qualities that P-90s share and makes these pickups' reputation on the LPF so well deserved. Plus the less noise. For all you Timbucker and genuine PAF players who have never wandered into P-90 territory, you're 85% there already -- pick up some real P-90's and see if in fact these possess the tone you've been chasing all your lives... and then some.

Dimarzio Bluesbuckers - These claim to simulate P-90s. They are clearer than most 'buckers, but they don't quite get there. Having a more compressed sonic signature than the real deal P-90, they also break up earlier and lose a bit of focus. Nice tone on its own terms, but doesn't have that throaty, vocal quality.

Dimarzio Humbuckers From Hell - Makes no claims to be in P-90 territory, and so they aren't. Having said that, these are very clean, bright, and articulate pickups that have a decidedly modern quality verging on a clinical, studio-like sound. Very un-bucker sounding and much closer to a modern Fender vibe. Can have an "acoustic-like" quality to it. In fact I ended up leaving it in the neck slot of the 335 Pro with the Bluesbucker in the bridge, which makes for a truly versatile guitar -- the blended sound is great.

THE WRAP: If sonic faithfulness to real P-90s is your bag, the Gibson P-94s almost gets you there. You just have to contend with whether you like the look -- in our book, we'd really rather just go with the P-90 guitars because they still do sound and feel better.

Tims are Tims. What can we say? In an earlier HB shootout, these demolished BB's, '57 Classics, T-tops, Holmes', Fralins, Antiquities, Lovers, Voodoos, Dimarzio PAFS, you name it. Tims were really close to real PAFs and we liked them precisely because they both approached those qualities that we loved in vintage P-90s, despite their being 'buckers.

The real revelation in terms of HB-sized single coils were the Duncan Phat Cats and the Harmonic Design Z-90s -- they are P-90s and more -- a class unto themselves. Cut, sting, detail, balls, punch, warmth, roundness. It's like you poured some PAF into a glass of Tele bridge, garnished it with a Gretsch Fillter'tron, and stirred it with a piano string. A tone alchemist's fantasy. If you indulge yourself, you may never touch another 'bucker again ('cept for Tims).

Postscript: The P-90 guitars showed themselves to be truly self referential, all being closer tonally to one another than any of the others ever got. But perhaps because of other factors like instrument construction, age, etc., we had our distinctions nevertheless:

'57 LP Special (single cut) - most "open" and warm sounding
'59 LP Special (double cut) - the "true" reference, lots of "body"
'60 LP Special (double cut) - angry and nasty, most stinging tone
'72 LP Goldtop '58 / '54 - most civilized, in control
Mid '60's Melody Maker w/ modern P-90's - sounding somewhat "new", most one-dimensional and least complex"

 

[kspeed]

Wow! That's a super-informative writeup. Thanks to you both (I don't know why Fralin didn't pop into my mind right away).

 

[mrkenny]

huw, Thanks for the informative P90 stuff. I've used the Z90's for several years now. The bridge pickup is just a tad bright so I've been thinking about a swap. Maybe the Tim's are worth a shot. Thanks

 

[loaded six string]

Thats a lot of great info. there As far as the GFS p90s go, I have a set in my flying V and I love them. They have a very gritty bluesy growl to them, and there customer service is superb. I had to email them with a question about a out of phase issue, and they answered very promptly. Great tone for little money.

 

[Nightwerks]

Bare Knuckle Pickups do a Humbucker sized P90. I heard they are very good due to hand wind and scatter wound. Something to think about

 

[dennistruckdriver]

Bare Knuckle Pickups do a Humbucker sized P90. I heard they are very good due to hand wind and scatter wound. Something to think about

Dude, did you check the date of the OP?

Welcome, by the way.

 

[5F6-A]

Harmonic Design Z-90s - Like P-90s on steroids. All the grittiness, detail and focus are there -- stinging highs, punchy mids, including the piano string bottom and growl -- but with incredible harmonic spread, girth and body compared with the vintage P-90's. Clear and articulate when clean, angry and nasty when pushed. More depth, volume and complexity than the real deal with less noise. These have the all important "organic" and dynamic characteristics. Equally great as a rhythm or lead pickup.

a clip using a z90 bridge in a epi dot

SoundClick artist: Hilario Garcia - page with MP3 music downloads

 

[captcoolaid]

WB makes them as well.

 

[uniphasian]

Bare Knuckle Pickups do a Humbucker sized P90. I heard they are very good due to hand wind and scatter wound. Something to think about

I bought a set of these awhile back - Mississippi Queen is their model name. I put them in an R8 to see if I really liked P90s and I liked them so much I bought a P90 SG.

I've since put the BK Mules back in my R8 and I have the Mississippi Queens now taking up space in my workshop.

I'll sell them for $175 shipped and PP'd if you want to try some out. As new, not a scratch on 'em, and full leads. Original boxes and paperwork included.

 

[bmorrow]

A guy posting as "Chocolate Buddha" posted this on the LPF a while ago. I keep it arround as a good reference:

"A timely thread -- a friend and I just carried out an obsessive HB-sized P-90/P-90 like HB shootout to see what we liked best. At the outset, let me say that P-90s are my favored pu's, so I have been in search of their HB-sized sonic relatives for the last 4 or 5 years. Here are the results (completely subective of course) - The competing pu's (all properly paired sets for Nk and Br, RWRP in cases that apply):

Single Coils: Gibson P-94s, Kent Armstrong WPU900Cs, Harmonic Design Z-90s, Seymour Duncan Phat Cats, Rio Grande (Fat) Bastards

Humbuckers: Dec '04 Timbuckers, Dimarzio Bluesbuckers, Dimarzio Humbuckers From Hell

The pu's were swapped in and out of the following guitars that would be considered within the reach of an average dedicated tone nut: '02 LP R8, two '99 LP Standards, '85 SG Standard, '95 335 Dot RI, '81 335 Pro, '00 Epi LP Hollowbody Ltd. Ed.

These combinations were normed against the tone and response of the following genuine classics (all stock, except for the melody maker): '57 LP Special (single cut), '59 LP Special (double cut), '60 LP Special (double cut), '72 LP Goldtop '58 (like a '54 with the single wrapover tailpiece), mid '60's Melody Maker refitted with modern (new) dog-eared P-90's

All played thru these amps: '62 Brownface Pro, '65 BF Pro Reverb, '59 Bassman RI, Kendrick 2410 (4x10 tweed bassman clone), Kendrick 2112 (5e3 deluxe clone), Matchless Brave 1x12, Peavey Delta Blues 2x10 (re-tubed and re-speakered), UniValve (with all-Mullard EL34 and ECC83's) thru a Marshall 4x12 cab, Marshall JCM900 2x12 combo

The outcomes:

Harmonic Design Z-90s - Like P-90s on steroids. All the grittiness, detail and focus are there -- stinging highs, punchy mids, including the piano string bottom and growl -- but with incredible harmonic spread, girth and body compared with the vintage P-90's. Clear and articulate when clean, angry and nasty when pushed. More depth, volume and complexity than the real deal with less noise. These have the all important "organic" and dynamic characteristics. Equally great as a rhythm or lead pickup.

Seymour Duncan Phat Cats - Everything said about the Z-90s applies here too. In fact, it's remarkable and a bit disconcerting how similar they sound. A great plus is that these pu's have nickel covers (not an option for the HD's) which preserve somewhat a vintage look. Also very reasonable pricewise.

Kent Armstrong WPU900Cs - More well behaved that the real deal -- with slightly attenuated highs and compression by comparison. Definitely in the neighborhood, but with a bit less dynamics and spread. Looks very much like the Phat Cats -- great price!

Gibson P-94s - Most similar tonally to the vintage P-90s, but with slightly less detailed highs as with the Armstrongs. Again, a bit more civilized. Familiar but unconventional looks -- kind of like a DeArmond or a 60's european make.

Rio Grande Bastard and Fat Bastard - Normed against the real P-90s, these pu's seemed dull, muddy, overly compressed and middy. In fact, they sounded more like average conventional humbuckers than the humbuckers in the shootout. Lots of volume but terribly poor dynamics and no "3-D ness" to the sound. Quite disappointing, which made me suspect that there may be something wrong with this set given how many people seem to like this pu. Ironically, it has the best cosmetics of the single coil bunch -- great looking construction and plating.

Timbuckers - Am convinced that these must be as close as any recently made 'buckers will ever get to the soul of a vintage P-90. Of course there is the expected attenuation in the highs, but in this case it is only ever slightly less so. Warmer than a P-90 and rightly so, they nevertheless have those clear, articulate, organic, complex and dynamic qualities that P-90s share and makes these pickups' reputation on the LPF so well deserved. Plus the less noise. For all you Timbucker and genuine PAF players who have never wandered into P-90 territory, you're 85% there already -- pick up some real P-90's and see if in fact these possess the tone you've been chasing all your lives... and then some.

Dimarzio Bluesbuckers - These claim to simulate P-90s. They are clearer than most 'buckers, but they don't quite get there. Having a more compressed sonic signature than the real deal P-90, they also break up earlier and lose a bit of focus. Nice tone on its own terms, but doesn't have that throaty, vocal quality.

Dimarzio Humbuckers From Hell - Makes no claims to be in P-90 territory, and so they aren't. Having said that, these are very clean, bright, and articulate pickups that have a decidedly modern quality verging on a clinical, studio-like sound. Very un-bucker sounding and much closer to a modern Fender vibe. Can have an "acoustic-like" quality to it. In fact I ended up leaving it in the neck slot of the 335 Pro with the Bluesbucker in the bridge, which makes for a truly versatile guitar -- the blended sound is great.

THE WRAP: If sonic faithfulness to real P-90s is your bag, the Gibson P-94s almost gets you there. You just have to contend with whether you like the look -- in our book, we'd really rather just go with the P-90 guitars because they still do sound and feel better.

Tims are Tims. What can we say? In an earlier HB shootout, these demolished BB's, '57 Classics, T-tops, Holmes', Fralins, Antiquities, Lovers, Voodoos, Dimarzio PAFS, you name it. Tims were really close to real PAFs and we liked them precisely because they both approached those qualities that we loved in vintage P-90s, despite their being 'buckers.

The real revelation in terms of HB-sized single coils were the Duncan Phat Cats and the Harmonic Design Z-90s -- they are P-90s and more -- a class unto themselves. Cut, sting, detail, balls, punch, warmth, roundness. It's like you poured some PAF into a glass of Tele bridge, garnished it with a Gretsch Fillter'tron, and stirred it with a piano string. A tone alchemist's fantasy. If you indulge yourself, you may never touch another 'bucker again ('cept for Tims).

Postscript: The P-90 guitars showed themselves to be truly self referential, all being closer tonally to one another than any of the others ever got. But perhaps because of other factors like instrument construction, age, etc., we had our distinctions nevertheless:

'57 LP Special (single cut) - most "open" and warm sounding
'59 LP Special (double cut) - the "true" reference, lots of "body"
'60 LP Special (double cut) - angry and nasty, most stinging tone
'72 LP Goldtop '58 / '54 - most civilized, in control
Mid '60's Melody Maker w/ modern P-90's - sounding somewhat "new", most one-dimensional and least complex"

This is the most indepth info on humbucker size P90s I've had the pleasure of finding. I really admire the time you put into it. Much appreciated. Now, I did notice that there are a few highly raved Humbucker P90s you didn't include & I was just wondering what your opinion might be on some of the others left out. Do you have any hands on experience with the "BG Pup Pure 90", "GHS Mean 90", "Tonerider Rebel 90" or the "Bare Knuckle Mississippi Queen"? And if you have had experience playing through these other pickups I've mentioned, would you be willing to share your opinion on them in further comparison to the pickups you you already compared? Thanks so much!

 

[slapshot]

i'd be interested in some tonerider information not just company spin.
Also has anyone take the cover off a GFS Mean 90?
the dream 90 is just a single coil under a humbucker cover .....

 

[Sin Nombre]

i'd be interested in some tonerider information not just company spin.
Also has anyone take the cover off a GFS Mean 90?
the dream 90 is just a single coil under a humbucker cover .....

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/2082377-post10.html

 

[smorgdonkey]

This is the most indepth info on humbucker size P90s I've had the pleasure of finding. I really admire the time you put into it. Much appreciated. Now, I did notice that there are a few highly raved Humbucker P90s you didn't include & I was just wondering what your opinion might be on some of the others left out. Do you have any hands on experience with the "BG Pup Pure 90",

I have a set of the BG Pure 90 in this Les Paul:

...and I had the Fralin P92 set in this Les Paul (which was sold a couple of weeks ago):

The BG set is a true P90 which fits into a humbucker sized space whereas most H-sized P90 pickups don't get 'as true' a P90 sound...even the Fralins are actually a humbucker with 3 poles offset to 3 poles to reduce noise. I loved the Fralins actually, and I offered the buyer whatever set of pickups he might want in exchange for them if he ever decides to change them.

I love the Pure 90 pickups from BG...they are amazing and are what pushed me to buy a set of BG humbuckers as well. As much buzz as Bryan Gunsher is getting, he is still under-rated. I can't see anyone being disappointed with any of his pickups.

 

[rideski]

I have a set of the GFS Mean 90's enroute now. I'm going to drop them into my Tradition GT. I can't to hear the difference.

 

[ToneQuest75]

Thanks for this superb review, it's extremely helpful to me