How to tell the difference between classic and reissue

[Herr Dalbergia]

Hello,

Perhaps a stupid question, but how can you tell the difference between a early 90ies classic and an early 90ies reissue, without having the possibility for x-raying them.

Thickness of the binding at the fretboard? Where are the differences?

I like this one, but actually could also just be a classic with the les Paul model on the headstock....

Where is my thinking mistake?

http://shop.guitarpoint.de/de/Gibson/1993-Gibson-Les-Paul-Flametop-Standard-Reissue-Sunburst

Thank you, cheers, Alex

 

[So What]

Pick up rings are modern. Looks like snot green inlays. Serial number looks wrong.

I'm betting on a Classic model.

Others, more knowledgeable than I, will be by shortly to help you out.

.

 

[Herr Dalbergia]

Oh....i thought my idea of this being actually a classic was total paranoid and very unpolite to even think about. ....and now you are telling me this....

I think the seller is very reputable and I can not believe he would be wrong about this, but somehow I want to know how to tell the difference for sure....

Help...I need somebody....help...ain't there anybody.....lalalal

 

[Tim Plains]

I may be mistaken but I think the serial number font/size is a dead giveaway.

 

[Norton]

Looks more like a pre historic reissue to my simple eyes.

Those Don't appear to be the snot green inlays. At least not from what I'm seeing. The green ones aren't subtle and kind of scream "something's off here!"

And the serial number looks like it's a reissue/flame top/59 whatever they were calling it.

Or am I completely missing something?

 

[Herr Dalbergia]

Ok, thank you so far, thank you for taking your time and your knowledge.

First thing which actually comes to my mind:

what actually ARE the definitive differences between an early reissue and an early classic?

The only one I know, is the classic should have the 9 holes cheers body blank meanwhile the reissue should have a solid body without any weight manipulation.

I know the guitar in the link above has a short neck tenon, what was common for these early pre-historic reissues....but what else should be different....?

Cheers, alex

 

[bossaddict]

The typeface on "MODEL" looks more like the Gibson USA Classic to me, but I'm not an expert on pre-Historics. I think you can also tell if you can get a shot underneath the bridge pickup. It should say "Reissue" if it's a pre-Historic. Otherwise, it will just "Classic Plus" or something like that. I think...

EDIT: Here's an example of this in this thread...
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229371

 

[jamman]

Here .....
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86299

I'd ask to see inside the pup cavity .... All the HW, plastics, looks new . inlays don't look snot colored(are the corners rounded ?) .

I'm thinking from the overall impression I get (I'm not well versed in these ) it's a Classic or pre-historic .... The serial # is not the correct font ,going by what the Sticky above says .
BTW , it doesn't say it's a CS made .... in the stores ad or on the guitar .....
Unless I missed it .

 

[Herr Dalbergia]

@ bossaddict, thank you very much for this link, answered lots of my questions
@ jamman, you may consider that this guitar was made before the custom shop was actually set up! What is actually one of the braking discussion points....but I am also not sure yet with this serial number at all, thank you for this advice, too!

But problem solved, again lesson learned...I will have a look under the pickups ...if I have a Look at the guitar at all....

Cheers, Alex

 

[Slater529]

I'm thinking it's a legitimate pre-historic Les Paul Standard Reissue, made from 1983 to 1993. Read this article reprinted from Vintage Guitar Magazine (2004).

 

[So What]

I'm glad some more informed members came by to help you out.

This should help you figure out what price range it should be in.

You ought to play it to see if you like it. It may be that you don't like it at any price.

Good luck with the transaction. Let us know how it turns out.

Cheers!

.

 

[Left Paw]

Early LP Classics have skinny necks. As in *really* skinny necks. As was pointed out already, the serial number font is not historically accurate and the first digit corresponds to the year (1993 for the guitar linked by the OP). Also, early 90s LP Classics did not have green fb inlays.

 

[Left Paw]

From Vintage Guitar magazine, May 1998, Eric Shoaf's definitive article on the evolution of the earliest Les Paul Classic line:

"Late in the decade, Gibson's head of research and development, J.T. Riboloff, designed a reissue Les Paul based on the popular and collectible 1960 model. The key difference between this guitar and other Les Pauls in production at the time was the slim neck profile. In addition, Riboloff added other features to make the instrument faithful to the original such as a narrow headstock, thin cutaway binding, aged fingerboard inlays, inked-on serial number, nickel hardware, vintage-style logo and aged binding on body and neck.

The Les Paul Classic, as it was to be called, did have a couple of concessions to marketing such as a truss rod cover with "Classic" and pickguard marked "1960." The pickups came with no covers so the coils were exposed, another characteristic to differentiate it from other Les Pauls, though this was fairly realistic and a tip of the hat to those who traditionally removed covers to get a better tone on their old Pauls.

The Classic was introduced in 1990 with a retail price of $1,529. The least expensive Les Paul Standard at the time was the ebony finished version costing $1,169 while the sunburst model was $1,399. The Classic's higher price was justified by its reissue-yet-modern vibe and was further enhanced by availability in several sunburst finishes, and in bullion gold on the top, sides, back and neck. Most of the tops on sunburst models were plain and no extra effort was made to use fancy wood on these.

An immediate hit for Gibson, the Classic was tweaked further as time passed. The first change was the addition of a curly or "Plus" top in April 1991. Using maple which was deemed lacking in figure for the vaunted '59 reissue line, the Classic received nicely flamed tops and the designation Les Paul Classic Plus. Pricing was also adjusted as the Classic rose to $1,699 and the Classic Plus debuted at 2,099. By way of comparison, the '59 Reissue listed for $4,199 at the time. The Classic line continued to be a popular seller.

The success of the Classic and its new brother, the flamed top Classic Plus presented some difficult marketing problems for Gibson. The fact was that in many ways, the Classic was more of an accurate reissue than the '59 Les Paul of the early 1990s which still had a wide headstock, bright fingerboard and inlays, and wrong tuner bushings. The '59 did have a beefier neck and a highly flamed top, but the issue was further clouded when some highly figured Classic Plus models came to market. Wood grading is not an exact science, and some of the tops rejected for '59 reissues were in fact quite highly figured. Others had only mild flame. But with just a few easily obtainable parts, a blank truss rod cover, pickup covers, and a new pick guard, the owner of a particularly flamey Classic Plus could have a guitar that appeared to be just as nice as a '59 reissue while saving over $2,000 in the process.

Customers weren't the only ones who noticed this. Dealers were equally aware and they had a further beef with Gibson. As previously mentioned, tops on the Classic Plus ran the gamut from fairly mild flame to highly figured. A dealer ordering four Classic Plus models from Gibson might receive two which were nicely figured and two which were much less flamey. But the price was the same for each and explaining the difference to customers wasn't easy. The dealer gripes became louder in 1992 when the Historic Collection was announced. Dealers receiving the Historic Collection franchise were required to place a cash deposit with Gibson in order to participate in the program. Included among designated Historic Collection instruments was the Les Paul '59 reissue which, at that time, had not yet been reconfigured to Historic Collection specifications. Some dealers felt that a premium was being charged for a guitar which wasn't as faithful to the original as lower priced offerings.

Further, in 1992 a 1960 style slim tapered neck was mated with a '59 reissue body to create a Les Paul 1960 reissue which some customers confused with the Classic Plus until they checked the price tag. Worse, some dealers may have felt compelled to pass off a tarted-up Classic Plus as a 1960 reissue in order to improve profitability.

To complicate things even more, the Classic line was extended again in early 1993 with the introduction of the Premium Plus model. Responding to complaints about top grading, Gibson set up yet another line of figured tops which were nicer than "plus" tops but not as nice (in most cases) as '59 reissue tops. For dealers, the basic concern still remained: these guitars were almost like reissues for a lot less money. The only real difference between the Plus and Premium Plus was the top and the fact that the Premium designated guitars had no pickguard installed. It was delivered in the case pocket. The buyer also paid a $500 premium for the Premium Plus compared to the Plus.

While having the appearance of corporate bumbling, Gibson was actually trying to work out the differences and, also in 1993, they managed to get it right. The Historic Collection '59 Les Paul introduced that year was the most accurate reissue of the model to date in details which went far beyond appearances. The '59 has become the most popular of Gibson's Historic line. Still, for those who wanted the look of a '59 without the cost there was the Classic Premium Plus with a few changed parts for a lot less money. But Gibson solved that problem as well in mid-1993 when the decal on the headstock of all Classics was changed from "Les Paul Model" to "Les Paul Classic." This finally differentiated the Classic from other Les Paul models in a way which couldn't be easily tampered. Late in 1993 the binding in the cutaway of the Classic was widened, a further distancing from the '59 reissue.

 

[Chain]

Awesome early Classic Plus withe great Pickups.

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/1993-gibson-les-paul-wolfetone-legends-pickups-/579242020-74-4570

 

[Herr Dalbergia]

Yes, but I dislike the top, that's for me B- quality, neither quilt nor flame, and totally overpriced, not original etc...

But thanks for sharing

 

[Oranjeaap]

I do think it's a prehistoric. Having that said, I do believe they are 99,9% the same, the only differences are so minor, I would never buy a prehistoric from the years overlapping with Classic model. The Classic can be had for under €2000 easily. This guitar is also hilariously overpriced

 

[Fracture]

 

[Chain]

For me it seems to be a great top. But I am a plain top lover.
Bored about these "must have flames".
And I am bored about reading price discussions in general.

For ex.:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/GIBSON-LES-PAUL-Classic-/291980659546?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=oMa28AYSqnaebHrjZymDyTOjiuo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Also hilariously overpriced guitar - because no bid....
Everybody wants to get the best deal - and swap a 59`burst for a chocolate bar.

OK, that was OT.

Had a Classic years ago and I miss it - great guitars.

 

[Pappy58]

I'm not an expert on this, but I love informational threads like this....so thanks to the OP for the great question and all the replies.

from what I gather reading this thread, (And playing a few Classics) the one common denominator seems to be neck profile? The Classic has a extra slim neck so should be easy to tell with some basic measuring tools. What am I missing?

 

[Oranjeaap]

I think the stamp in the neckpocket is different.

So is the font of the serial number (I think the pre reissue has a bolder font, but I'm not sure about this)

Classic should have a thin neck, but I don't know the neck size on pre historics, I guess they vary like everything Gibson does.

Anyone else have any other signs to set them apart for sure?