How much 'margin of error' should you accept for a defected Les Paul?

[GS1]

I have had a few PRS S2 models (and a few SE's for that matter), and I could not find a flaw. But, nothing sounds like a Gibby...

 

[LtDave32]

Hi all, I'm sorry I have to make this as my first post in mylespaul forums. If it is not appropriate, moderators please delete it.

I have gotten a brand new 2013 Les Paul Standard in 2015. It's my first Gibson Les Paul and I bought it from a retail shop without thoroughly inspecting it. Mainly due to not knowing what to look out for and giving the benefit that it is a high dollar guitar and taking for granted it's 'attention to detail' and Gibson's reputation.

Over the months, I have begun to notice that the bottom strap button is not even drilled right in the middle. It is off center to the right side, probably 2-5mm off.

On the neck strap button, it is not drilled perpendicular to the body of the guitar and the screw is actually bent just so the strap button can sit flush with the body.

I am ready to overlook this 'minor' imperfections until I noticed that either the neck is shifted laterallyits or the bridge is not sitting right in the middle!? The high E string is nearer to the bottom edge of the fretboard while the low E string is further away from the edge of the fretboard. Plus, all the strings are not aligned to the MOP fretboard markers.

Should I accept this from a US$2.5k guitar?

I just want to know what all Les Paul owners think about this. How much buffer would you give on a Les Paul for its minor defects? Or if this is even 'minor' at all?

Thank you all for reading.

Welcome to our forum!

This thread is entirely appropriate. This is where folks discuss such issues. We are not beholden to Gibson inc, and are free to discuss likes, dislikes, pros n' cons, etc. Just keep things civil, don't go on the attack if someone disagrees with you, and if someone's out of line, report the post via the small "triangle" icon to the left of the post in question at the bottom of the box under their name. Let the mods handle it.

Far as your original question goes, I too have seen issues on these guitars that should not be there, especially at Gibson's price point. For example, I've seen (back in 2012) a Gibson LP standard at a Guitar Center in Calif. that had the binding on the treble side which looked as if someone took a paring knife to the outside leading edge of the binding and sliced off a nice, 8 inch strip, as if they were peeling a potato. On top of that, the lacquer spray was dry in that area and particularly "porous", for lack of a better word. the [] rectangle of the binding was more like a |\ shape. IMO, it should have never left the factory like that. Very noticeable.

Most of what you've described would be open to determination of the individual viewer, were there pictures posted. We have no way of determining the severity of the problems without seeing them. But even still, it's mostly up to the buyer at point of purchase to be watchful about such issues.

 

[Bobby Mahogany]

First of all I would have the nature of the defect established.

I suggest you show it to a reputable luthier and have him establish
what the problem is. Then you can decide if it's worth keeping or returning.

Since you like the guitar, even spending like $100 is ok.
It's not ideal but it's ok for the long run.
If the nut is not cut properly, get a bone nut cut
and installed. It's not too expensive and will correct the problem.
Bridge adjustment, whatever.

Let us know what develops.

 

[Chris B.]

The Gibson lack of QC is really getting out of hand. If it's not the craftsmanship that we are paying for with these instruments then how can we justify the astronomical prices? Its just wood, metal, and electronics beyond that. I sold USA Jackson, Charvels, and Hamer guitars from 1988 to 1995 and not once did we have these kind of QC problems on any of those instruments. For that matter I don't remember these issues on the mid priced Japanese Charvel and ESP guitars we sold back then. It's ridiculous! The sad thing is we consumers keep writing these big checks for sub-par instruments that really don't even compare to $500 imports in the Quality department.

So you worked at GC (or whatever) back in the nineties and that makes you an expert? Reading something like this I have to believe that you are trolling. Being hand made, I am sure some Gibbies ship with issues. My 2014 LPTRPR2 is pretty flawless, though.

 

[Stevie 202]

I did 3 things when I bought my first and only Gibson Les
Paul.

Installed a bone nut because the one that was there sucked.

Replaced the bridge with a Callaham steel Nashville bridge because, again, the original sucked.

Lastly I had the frets levelled and crowned because the job they did on it sucked.

Granted this was a 'budget' model LP Classic Plus that cost considerably less than the Standards.

Whole operation cost a little over 200 bucks but now the guitar is a real sweet player that I intend to keep forever.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Atomant]

Hi guys, thank you for all your replies. Well to keep you guys updated, I brought the guitar down to the dealer on the 1st April 2016 after about 11 months of ownership. Yeap 11 months. Complained about the issue with off-centered strap buttons, bent strap button screws and a laterally tilted neck. Was told to leave my guitar for inspection.

Waited 2 weeks for their reply and their reply is 'our technician has scanned the neck and there is nothing wrong with it'.

So I went down personally again to the dealership, this time speaking with the manager and technician. They insisted that everything was normal and that warranty only applies to electronic parts.

It is only when I threatened to post this matter on the forums that they relented.

 

[frozenotter]

This is one of the best questions. Mainly because it's being so relevant to Gibson quality, or lack there of.

The things you speak of are completely in the norm of Gibson's terrible track record. When I think of Gibson I think of the best materials and the worsed craftsmanship in a lot of cases. My Custom that I just purchased for thousands new won't even stay in tune. It's been a week and the gold is already wearing off the hardware. The nut was hanging off the side of the neck about an 8th of an inch. The tuner bolts were completely loose (yes, still a tuning problem with them tight). I think the truss rod is vibrating on certain frquencies. Who knows what else I'll find.

You have to take Gibson on the overall - great materials and shi**y workmanship. You will get snookered one way or the other every time.

I find the cheaper a Gibson is the better it plays - my Specials are dream machines and my main work horses.

 

[rlefty]

Got some pics of what you're talking about?

 

[Mustard Caps]

No way would I accept that.

 

[Chris B.]

This is one of the best questions. Mainly because it's being so relevant to Gibson quality, or lack there of.

The things you speak of are completely in the norm of Gibson's terrible track record. When I think of Gibson I think of the best materials and the worsed craftsmanship in a lot of cases. My Custom that I just purchased for thousands new won't even stay in tune. It's been a week and the gold is already wearing off the hardware. The nut was hanging off the side of the neck about an 8th of an inch. The tuner bolts were completely loose (yes, still a tuning problem with them tight). Who knows what else I'll find.

You have to take Gibson on the overall - great materials and shi**y workmanship. You will get snookered one way or the other every time.

I find the cheaper a Gibson is the better it plays - my Specials are dream machines and my main work horses.

Especially the nut hanging off the neck by 1/8 of an inch. Why would you buy a guitar with that defect?

 

[Atomant]

Got some pics of what you're talking about?

Only have a pic of the neck. Will take pictures of the strap button when i'm down at the dealership.

 

[rlefty]

Only have a pic of the neck. Will take pictures of the strap button when i'm down at the dealership.

That doesn't look too unusual.

 

[Atomant]

This is one of the best questions. Mainly because it's being so relevant to Gibson quality, or lack there of.

The things you speak of are completely in the norm of Gibson's terrible track record. When I think of Gibson I think of the best materials and the worsed craftsmanship in a lot of cases. My Custom that I just purchased for thousands new won't even stay in tune. It's been a week and the gold is already wearing off the hardware. The nut was hanging off the side of the neck about an 8th of an inch. The tuner bolts were completely loose (yes, still a tuning problem with them tight). Who knows what else I'll find.

You have to take Gibson on the overall - great materials and shi**y workmanship. You will get snookered one way or the other every time.

I find the cheaper a Gibson is the better it plays - my Specials are dream machines and my main work horses.

I have played Les Pauls, Stratocasters, Ibanez, Schecter and Musicman JPX and while I still love a Les Paul, please tell me, where is the distinction in tone and sustain of a Les Paul? I must have missed out something big time. But the least I would expect from my first Les Paul is a shoddy workmanship.

 

[Atomant]

That doesn't look too unusual.

Well not if the high E string keeps slipping off the fretboard while plaiying on the 20-22th frets.

 

[Atomant]

No way would I accept that.

well, this thread shouldn't even exist.

 

[frozenotter]

Especially the nut hanging off the neck by 1/8 of an inch. Why would you buy a guitar with that defect?

I don't wanna hijack this thread, but I pushed it into place. I never noticed this until I had the guitar a few days.

I'm just empathizing with the OP.

 

[GS1]

One thing that I have noticed, is that some of the nuts are cut off center so to speak. Sometimes the high E is really close to the end of the fretboard. If it's too close, you will have problems with the string falling off. It's one of the things that I look at when I am shopping at a place like SW that shows photos of all of their guitars. Now granted, this isn't the end of the world, but I don't want to immediately replace the nut on a brand new guitar. (Some people want a nice bone nut, and remove it anyway, so, no biggie.)

 

[Atomant]

One thing that I have noticed, is that some of the nuts are cut off center so to speak. Sometimes the high E is really close to the end of the fretboard. If it's too close, you will have problems with the string falling off. It's one of the things that I look at when I am shopping at a place like SW that shows photos of all of their guitars. Now granted, this isn't the end of the world, but I don't want to immediately replace the nut on a brand new guitar. (Some people want a nice bone nut, and remove it anyway, so, no biggie.)

Thank you for your input GS1 but things would be alot easier if it were just the nut being cut close to the fretboard. I would have kept the 2013 Les Paul. But I do agree with you, that I have also cultivated a habit of looking at fretboards and fretboard markers before purchasing a guitar. Just not yet when I purchased this Les Paul 11 months ago.

 

[Sp8ctre]

I think it's funny how we are paying top dollar for these Gibson products yet we are willing to take merchandise that has issues.

If you go buy a new car are you going to just let QC issues slide? I know I won't.

I agree with some of the comments here about much less expensive guitars coming out of China with less issues where QC is involved.

Aren't we buying these because we want "Gibson" and "Made in America". When we buy things made in the USA don't we expect well made goods and pride in the product quality?

If people accept inferior goods that's exactly what will keep coming out of the factory...

 

[Chris B.]

I don't wanna hijack this thread, but I pushed it into place. I never noticed this until I had the guitar a few days.

I'm just empathizing with the OP.

Fair enough.