How many watts to comfortably get over drummer?

[powerpopguy]

In my first band and I need to know how many watts I need to be heard over the drummer. I have a Vox Pathfinder 15r and it doesn't cut it.

 

[sonar]

There are several factors that add into the equation, but generally a 15-20 watt tube amp with an efficient 12" speaker should work with a moderate drummer. At least look at that as a starting point. Solid state - maybe 50 watts?

Another guitarist, bass player who likes to ride mids, keyboard or a drummer who wants to be John Bonham and the volume wars begin. Try to avoid this, unless you want tinnitus to be part of the rest of your life.

 

[Eric Smith]

Yeah, it's kind of hard to believe that 15 isn't cutting it. I would think that it would. The drummer of my bad is a hard hitting drummer and I can get past it with 15 pretty comfortably. Of course, not all 15 watt amps are created equal.

 

[Comanche]

A forty watt tube amp will do anything you want.

 

[sonar]

A Vox Pathfider with its 8" speaker is going to struggle with almost any drummer that isn't using brushes.

 

[Eric Smith]

A Vox Pathfider with its 8" speaker is going to struggle with almost any drummer that isn't using brushes.

That would explain that.

 

[Marshall & Moonshine]

Depends on the music, how loud you need your clean tone to be, are you mic'd, has your band worked out your practice/stage volumes....
Lots of details to include.
Do you want power section breakup, preamp distortion, no distortion?
Fill out the questionaire, that's the most helpful Step 1 in help choosing an amp.

 

[powerpopguy]

Depends on the music, how loud you need your clean tone to be, are you mic'd, has your band worked out your practice/stage volumes....
Lots of details to include.
Do you want power section breakup, preamp distortion, no distortion?
Fill out the questionaire, that's the most helpful Step 1 in help choosing an amp.

Not Mic'd, I need to be able to go from clean to distortion. it's a punk rock band.

 

[JMV]

Marshall Major or nothing.

 

[Eric Smith]

Marshall Major or nothing.

Yes, a vintage amp is always the way to go.

 

[yeti]

In my first band and I need to know how many watts I need to be heard over the drummer. I have a Vox Pathfinder 15r and it doesn't cut it.

Since you're in your first band is it safe to assume that it's also the drummer's first band?
Sounds like a "teachable moment", a critical opportunity to teach a lesson that can be important to all musicians this drummer will come in contact with over the next 4 -5 decades. Not to put pressure on you but there's a lot riding on you getting this right.
Turn up your pathfinder to a comfortable level and calmly explain to him that this is the top of the range and he's more than welcome to play at any variation of levels BELOW this level.
"ask not how many watts YOU need to be heard over the drummer, ask how light a touch HE needs to be heard alongside the guitarplayer, vocalist, etc."

Here's the hard part:
Make sure he understands that his groove and sense of time are to not suffer due to this demarkation. If you pull this off we all owe you a great debt of gratitude.

 

[cheetah77]

You need at least 50 watts, or 30 class A Vox watts.

 

[Groove Toad]

You should be able to keep up with a drummer with 20+ tube amp watts.

Then again if you want the drummer to shut up -

 

[duaneflowers]

My twin reverb has yet to even notice a drummer's presence...

 

[TheDevice]

I found this to work pretty damn well.

 

[Marshall & Moonshine]

Punk rock? Shoot, man...
2204!!!!
50watts of Marshall madness.
Look up a 4104, which is the 2-12 combo version. It's open back (duh) which keeps the low end just loose enough for old school punk, but still has that krang going on.
Heavy as a mofo, though. I think it's one of the best punk amps ever. I have one, but I seldom play punk. The sound is definitely there.

 

[12watt]

An 8 inch speaker is always going to get lost against a drummer. It is just not moving enough air. 15 watts through a 2 x 12 or 4 x 12 would fare better. As a punk band, I doubt your drummer will be tickling them, so 30 - 50 through at least 2 x 12s should do it. Wear earplugs or you will damage your hearing.

I used the amp to the left for a long time, it has an efficient speaker and the band was quite large, keys and rhythm guitar. I didn't want a lot of low end, just cutting mids and top. It is 12 watts and did the job, but would not suit another application.

 

[Backstage]

... but generally a 15-20 watt tube amp with an efficient 12" speaker ...

I agree.

 

[wagdog]

Punk rock, with a punk rock drummer? I'm reaching here, but I'm guessing that dynamics and hitting softly aren't his/her forte?

100w tube amp.

And ear plugs, NOW, do not, repeat DO NOT play without ear plugs.

 

[Batman]

Not all tube amps and not all speakers are created equal. The efficiency of the speakers you choose will play a large part in how loud you sound. As an example Vintage 30's at 100dB sensitivity will be louder than G12T75's at 97 dB sensitivity through the same amp at the same 'volume'.

Although it would be nice to get the drummer to learn dynamics, it's not really part of the punk image. . .

What kind of sound are we talking about?

The smooth but snarly sound of Mike Ness in Social Distortion (Fender Bassman)

or

the krang and growl of Johnny Ramone (Marshall JMP Super Lead or JCM 800)

In either case, since you want loud cleans in addition to grind, I'd look in the 40-50 watt range and try to pick an amp with a Master Volume; Marshall 2204/4104 or a Traynor YBA-1 would be my first choices but that's just my opinion.