Hong Kong.

Roberteaux

V.I.P. Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2010
Messages
27,195
Reaction score
131,769
Still watching the People's Republic's propaganda response to all of this unrest.

Over the last few days, Beijing's state media has taken to claiming that to that the demonstrators are "terrorists" who are "taking orders from foreign blackhands"... with the screed carrying on to identify the black-handed scoundrels as Taiwan, the United Kingdom, and of course, the United States.

This is what they're telling their own subjects in the mainland area of China.

Some observers are troubled by that, thinking that Beijing is pre-loading its mainland subjects with a justification for what could turn into a Tienanmen-style bloodbath in Hong Kong.

But as of today, the media effort against the protesters that is being seen in Hong Kong itself is to claim that the protesters are actually doing the bidding of ISIS! :facepalm:

Those broadcasts are not made to the people in the interior of China. Instead, this is what Beijing is claiming elsewhere... and it's part of an attempt on their part to sway persons who are not subject to the same censorship that they treat their own subjects to.

Twitter took down 900 recently-created accounts that were carrying on with the ISIS-protester connection, and Facebook took down a bunch of accounts they say were followed by about 15K people... but which all went back to the PRC and its disinformation artists on the mainland.

Meanwhile, the official media around Hong Kong continues to broadcast stern warnings concerning the severe consequences to be faced if the protests and demonstrations do not end. The stations have also been broadcasting lots of video of the People's Liberation Army troops, currently massing in Shenzhen, about 10 miles north of Hong Kong. The videos usually depict PLA troops training to kick the shit out of the protesters.

However, the 6,000 troops China already has stationed in Hong Kong have yet to actually show up on the street. And so less doom-stricken observers consider that the situation might not end up really super-bloody, while the more pessimistic interpretation is that the moment to strike simply has not come to pass-- yet.

If the PLA goes in to Hong Kong, they'll have to go in big. The situation in Hong Kong isn't the same as what the Chicoms faced in Tienanmen Square, where about 1 million people were massed in a 109-acre square, more or less squashed together before the tanks showed up.

But in Hong Kong, it's more like 3 million protesters-- out of a city of 7 million people-- and they're scattered all over all 427 square miles of the place, though often turning up in a single place in the hundreds of thousands.

Seeing as we're talking about an island archipelago, it's going to be a bit more difficult for the People's Liberation Army to squelch everything than it was in Tienanmen Square... but it's still do-able.

This whole mess has put Li Xinping, the Chinese communist boss-for-life, on a real hot seat. An old school commie hardliner whose political and military backers are likewise totalitarian thugs, Li is squirming and probably champing at the bit to go stomp this latest uprising into goop. Meanwhile, his competitors within the republic are starting to whisper that he's going soft... time for a new strong man to come along.

The Chinese dote on strong-man government. It's something they've been all about since the time of the First Emperor.

Unfortunately, such heavy-handed tactics are what the protestors are complaining about to begin with... and you can't wipe 'em all out. Worse, however, is the fallout when it comes to the Chinese fiscal system, which has gotten a real big shot in the ass and a lot of money by having assumed control over the free-wheeling Hong Kong stock and foreign markets.

And right now China's fiscal state is in the doldrums. There are a lot of things eating away at the Chinese economy, and Beijing cannot quite afford to turn Hong Kong into another Tibet or Xinjiang just yet... and maybe never will have the ability to turn the area into one big prison camp without completely fucking up the lucrative nature of the territory as it is today.

And so Beijing is carrying on with the clumsy propaganda effort... and even ratcheting things up by tossing ISIS into the mix in what appears to be an attempt to coax public opinion outside of Hong Kong into a pro-Beijing kind of stance.

But it doesn't seem to be catching on at the moment. Certainly not within Hong Kong... and with the PRC now tossing ISIS in there along with we foreign blackhands from the US, the UK, and Taiwan, the mainland's propaganda efforts seem to be almost laughable.

Also vaguely amusing were the statements of China's ambassador to the UK, Liu Xiaoming, who told the BBC that the UK's politicians maintain the same "colonial mindset" as they did during their heyday as an empire.

Forever paranoiac, Beijing is scared to death that the UK actually wants Hong Kong back, and has carried on like that all along-- well before these protests began last March.

The Chinese commie bosses are now looking at a Zen Koan of sorts... one that reminds me of the old one concerning the goose in the bottle.

It went like this: a farmer put a baby goose in a bottle to protect it, and fed it until it grew into an adult goose. The farmer then wanted to get the goose out of the bottle, but without destroying either the bottle or the goose. The point of the koan is to question: how does one do this?

Unfortunately, the totalitarian state that is the People's Republic of China outlawed Zen, along with every other philosophy, religion, or what-not that might compete with the ideology of Communism itself... and so a Zen-style Quietist solution is probably not what Beijing will ultimately choose-- though really, that's what the smart money would work towards.

And the beat goes on.

--R
 
Last edited:

gadafi

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
1,056
Reaction score
887
China has it's tentacles everywhere and has big expansionist intentions. Reeling in Hong Kong and the new military bases in the South China Sea are just the beginning, they are also moving into other parts of Asia with massive infrastructure projects and the South Pacific with huge monetary loans to island nations that have no hope of repaying them. Guess what happens when it's time to pay the piper?

In Australia even some previously unquestioning pro China politicians from the left who called anyone with concerns about growing Chinese influence 'racists' are suddenly trying to backtrack by now wanting urgent security briefings for all MP's.... now that is cause for concern.
 

Crotch

Triggered
Platinum Supporter
Premium Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
20,474
Reaction score
43,889
They're also pissed at us for selling F14's to Taiwan.
 

dissaffected

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2015
Messages
1,274
Reaction score
2,143
Quiet for now but a situation that was bound to happen when the handover occurred in '97. One people 2 systems never lasts against an authoritarian and paranoid government.

It is also why dual passport has always been a sought after bene for residents of HK. My nephew's wife is HK Chinese. Everyone in her family has an Aussie, Canuck or US passport as wll as a HK one. But this is sadly a solution for only the wealthy and/or connected.And it is not as easy to get today as it was in the years leading to the handover in 97.
 

mgenet

Earth = Cheese Burger
Silver Supporter
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Messages
11,607
Reaction score
15,762
Reading across multiple accounts in far-flung media outlets, I'm seeing everything being said from "things are calming down" to "things are heating up".

This makes the situation murkier than ever. Not sure who to believe, because I can see reasons for everybody reporting to misrepresent the truth. But what's whacked is that many outlets aren't saying what I'd be expecting them to say, given their individual bias.

The one thing that does remain consistent is that the growling heard in Beijing does seem to be steadily increasing in volume, and that the terms the PRC is using to describe the unrest in Hong Kong tend to grow more extreme insofar as connotations are concerned.

That is, Beijing started by grumbling about "hooliganism" last March when the protests first began... but now we're at "terrorism" when it comes to what terms the mainland government is using to describe the protestors and dissidents.

I see that the PRC started piling up the military equipment-- at first up in Dongguan, but now it's starting to stream into Shenzhen... pretty close now.

Hong Kong PD is telling the mainland authorities that they don't need backup from the People's Army, but Beijing is beginning to disagree more openly with them.

All along the idea was to keep the pot from boiling over... and at first, when the government rescinded the extradition legislation that got the protests going last March, I figured that everybody would chill out. I expected Beijing to remain its forever malign self at heart-- but to be cool rather than face another round of sanctions such as what they got for Tienanmen. I expected them to stay cool because of a desire not to damage various Asian markets by means of a harsh intervention.

And I figured that the protestors would go back to a less vivid type of dissent once the extradition bill was scrapped...

But now I really don't know for sure what to expect. I don't think that the PRC is gonna just stand by forever.

The instant that the protestors force the game further by making the fiscal losses of a mainland intervention irrelevant, I'd expect the troops to move in.

No clue where that particular line of demarcation lies, however.

--R
I agree with you Robert. (well written btw) When China ramps its language up there's going to be trouble; and going from hooligans to terrorists is a steep ramp no matter how many words were in-between those two.

Also it is being reported that tanks and troops are massing on the border. I hope some other countries will speak up and or try to help negotiate a truce. Mostly to let the Chinese Gubment chill out.

One thing is for sure...those protesters are damn brave for speaking out against a brutal and totalitarian government. Damn brave. I wish all well who have relatives in Hong Kong.
 
Last edited:

Roberteaux

V.I.P. Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2010
Messages
27,195
Reaction score
131,769
I agree with you Robert. (well written btw) When China ramps its language up there's going to be trouble; and going from hooligans to terrorists is a steep ramp no matter how many words were in-between those two.

Also it is being reported that tanks and troops are massing on the border. I hope some other countries will speak up and or try to help negotiate a truce. Mostly to let the Chinese Gubment chill out.
Thank you for the compliment. Also: agreed with all you just said. :thumb:

Beijing continues to rant, with ever-increasing hyperbole. As of yesterday, the Chicom government has been telling others that the "terrorists" are now taking their orders from ISIS!

Just a couple of days ago, the PRC was saying that it was the US, the UK, and Taiwan who were behind the protests... but now it's ISIS?

Of course, this is what they are telling its subjects on the mainland. To every one else they continue to insist that it's the US, the UK, and the Taiwanese who are at the bottom of all the unrest in Hong Kong.

The Chinese Communist Party sucks. :noway:

--R
 

mgenet

Earth = Cheese Burger
Silver Supporter
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Messages
11,607
Reaction score
15,762
Thank you for the compliment. Also: agreed with all you just said. :thumb:

Beijing continues to rant, with ever-increasing hyperbole. As of yesterday, the Chicom government has been telling others that the "terrorists" are now taking their orders from ISIS!

ISIS Calling the Shots in Hong Kong, Says PRC

Just a couple of days ago, the PRC was saying that it was the US, the UK, and Taiwan who were behind the protests... but now it's ISIS?

Of course, this is what they are telling its subjects on the mainland. To every one else they continue to insist that it's the US, the UK, and the Taiwanese who are at the bottom of all the unrest in Hong Kong.

The Chinese Communist Party sucks. :noway:

--R
And so it goes!
 

EndGame00

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2013
Messages
1,295
Reaction score
1,100
I wouldn't be surprised if any or both sides would activate "sleeper cells" to turn this into powder keg.... Mainland needs a reason to impose a total martial law in HK....
 

mgenet

Earth = Cheese Burger
Silver Supporter
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Messages
11,607
Reaction score
15,762
I wouldn't be surprised if any or both sides would activate "sleeper cells" to turn this into powder keg.... Mainland needs a reason to impose a total martial law in HK....
Sounds like a Russian tactic but, Yeah it could happen. Chinese government needs to make the peaceful demonstrators look like they are threatening to China's safety or sovereignty .
 

Tone deaf

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
24,879
Reaction score
40,547
I hope it doesn't messup the 2020 Sevens. We were thinking of making that a business trip.
 

Jymbopalyse

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
4,764
Reaction score
10,199
Didn't we just watch Russia do this to The Crimean Peninsula.



Perhaps it's Assad's turn next.
 

Gtarzan81

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
5,443
Reaction score
17,139
China has it's tentacles everywhere and has big expansionist intentions. Reeling in Hong Kong and the new military bases in the South China Sea are just the beginning, they are also moving into other parts of Asia with massive infrastructure projects and the South Pacific with huge monetary loans to island nations that have no hope of repaying them. Guess what happens when it's time to pay the piper?

In Australia even some previously unquestioning pro China politicians from the left who called anyone with concerns about growing Chinese influence 'racists' are suddenly trying to backtrack by now wanting urgent security briefings for all MP's.... now that is cause for concern.
A friend of mine spent about a year in Ethiopia. He said that the Chinese are moving into developing countries in Africa in a BIG way with a sort of "Marshall plan." Ports, shiping, etc...all Chinese.
 

mgenet

Earth = Cheese Burger
Silver Supporter
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Messages
11,607
Reaction score
15,762
A friend of mine spent about a year in Ethiopia. He said that the Chinese are moving into developing countries in Africa in a BIG way with a sort of "Marshall plan." Ports, shiping, etc...all Chinese.
Yep, been in Africa spreading good will for at least a decade. Every place we pull out of the Chinese and the Russians will move into and peddle their influence.
 

rogue3

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2017
Messages
2,364
Reaction score
2,925
While its fallen off the junk news daily, i see(BBC news quotes)...

Hong Kong police storm metro system after protests.

"People took to the streets on Saturday to mark the fifth anniversary of China's government banning fully democratic elections in Hong Kong.
Hong Kong police have violently tackled suspected protesters after thousands of people marched in the city in defiance of a ban.
Protesters lit fires and attacked the parliament building, with petrol bombs bring thrown.
In response, police used tear gas, rubber bullets and water cannon to disperse crowds, and fired live warning shots as they tried to clear the streets.
Protesters took to the streets in the Wan Chai district, many joining a Christian march.
Demonstrators - chanting "stand with Hong Kong" and "fight for freedom" - gathered outside government offices, the local headquarters of China's People's Liberation Army and the city's parliament, known as the Legislative Council. "


Enough for one days snapshot in the daily junk news. Hope must be dwindling for the protestors. Nobody is even listening.Everybody is consumed with their own issues,imo.This backdrop will allow the Communist Chinese government to roll in and deploy troops with minimal outside interference.They must,lest other municipalities get the itch for democracy.remember the fall of the iron curtain? Will chinese governemnt roll with the change? I submit they won't.This is the timing before October 1:

"China is eager to quell the unrest before the 70th anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China on Oct. 1. It has accused foreign powers, particularly the United States and Britain, of fomenting the unrest."

If China does not act,it will be seen as weak.Image is everything.

Brexit(Britain having its own democracy crisis with prorogue of parliament),Elections in major democracies,no one wants a bad optic.European financial issues(they need to seize the opportunity>chinese trade< now that the other one has fallen out of favour.;) )

But don't be fooled,while being a local Chinese issue,it will have world-wide ramifications that will affect everyone,not the least of which is it will embolden China,with its ever greater ambitions.Once the tiger has swallowed this big morsel,with military muscle,it will turn its attention to the next target.Iron grip and further acquisitons are on their to-do list.

When they roll in,thousands will disappear into the Gulag.they are making a list.The extradition law will get passed, and those that are returned to China for trial will not make it back.They will be breaking rock in northern china with a pickaxe.This is the real desparation in the protestors actions.Its all or nothing to those deeply commited.

World-wide financial control,the power to manipulate and control in their favor.A population that heels when called upon to act as one.The iron grip.Further land acquisitions, the South China Sea,subordination of Taiwan(that would be the flashpoint for becomeing an international crisis).

The resulting financial tsunami because Hong Kong is a major world-wide financial center will make everyone sit up and take notice.This is the one caveat,that may preclude chinese military intervention.What does the tiger think? Who knows.Will it evolve into a more peaceful mediation because of this?

Some will weather the storm(i believe the US. is one that will).Others will not do so well.
 
Last edited:




Top