Historic Changes 2007 to 2020

Monster

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I have several Les Pauls, but only one Historic. Its a 2000 that I've modified quite a bit. I really haven't kept up with all the changes over recent years, but vaguely aware that they continued the pattern of slight changes every couple of years to make them more "vintage accurate", then did a couple of years of a "True Historic" that was supposed to be pretty dead on accurate (except I guess no Brazilian boards), and now back to "Custom Shop reissues"? Could one of you gurus update me on some of the broad details of changes to the Historic line over this time period along the template of the sticky "Historic Changes '93 - '07" thread? Thanks!
 

PauloQS

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I don't know much about them prior to 2013. I don't want to spread anything wrong, so any of you find that any of my info is inaccurate, please correct what I've written.

I don't know when the Vintage Old Stock (VOS) finish was first introduced. It is an aging of the finish to give it an old patina, but it's not a relic job, as there are no nicks and dings added to it. VOS generally also comes with aged hardware, but I don't know if that was always the case.
  • As I understand, in 2013 Gibson introduced the CustomBucker pickups to historic reissues from 1957 to 1960.
  • In late 2013 there were the transition models. Those were transitions from 2013 to 2014. I don't really know what were the actual difference if any. I've seen some people try get higher prices on these 2013 transition models, but I don't know what benefits there were to the 2013 transition models.
  • 2014 seems to be a really sought after year, which I believe is due to the mess that was created in 2015. There are some minor differences imposed later on, but many would argue that the additional historically accurate features you get from later years don't make a whole lot of difference. Others, think the minor changes over the years do actually add to the comfort and sound of the instrument. In that regard, I think you have to play the actual guitar and arrive at your own conclusion.
  • 2015 was confusing because Gibson had two Reissue Lines, the True Historic (TH) and the CS.
    • CS had serial numbers starting with CS, for instance CS8, CS9 and CS0 for 1958, 1959 and 1960 respectively. Whereas, the serial numbers of the TS were period correct, both in length and starting with 8, 9, 0 for 1958, 1959 and 1960 respectively.
    • TS came with molecular level correct plastics and hide glue (please someone confirm the glue)
    • TS had long neck tenon, while CS has short neck tenon (please someone confirm the tenon on the CS)
    • Different COA and control switch medallion.
  • 2016 scratched the CS and introduced the Standard Historic (SH), which was similar to to 2014 reissue. However, Gibson kept the TS line in 2016.
    • SH had long neck tenon.
    • Serial number on SH started with R8, R9, R0 for 1958, 1959 and 1960.
  • In 2017, I don't believe there were any changes from 2016 (please confirm). The one thing I noticed, is that serial numbers stopped carrying the R. Thus 8, 9, 0 for 1958, 1959 and 1960 respectively.
  • 2018, no more TH.
  • 2019, although the same Alnico III are used in the CustomBucker pickups, they are now unpotted. Another difference is the use of Paper in Oil (PIO) bumblebee capacitors. From, my experience with 2016/2017 models, they used bumblebee capacitors before, but they were according to some not real bumblebee capacitors because they were supposedly not PIO. Another feature of 2019 are the CTS audio taper pots, but I'm not sure if that is trully different from 2018. Whereas 2018 theoretically had the option of VOS finish and gloss finish, although I never saw a 2018 gloss finish in any store online or otherwise, in 2019 all the finishes for r8s to R0s are, as far as I know, only available in VOS. 2019 also have the, in my opinion inferior, but more vintage correct lifton 5 latches cases. I've also noticed that the edge in the cutaway where the back meets the body is a bit more rounded compared to previous models for added comfort. It's not a carve like they did with the fast access heel joint on the HPs and LP Modern, but just that edge of the back of the body is less pointy.
Finally, and this is very anecdotal, I found the necks to R9, and possibly R6s, R7s and R8s as well, to have slimmed down over the years. I haven't measured the necks on the R9s that I've tried over the years, but that was my general impression of them. I haven't played original bursts before, but I've heard their necks weren't that fat compared to some of the earlier R8s and R9s, according to some vintage guitar retailers. I'm just taking their word for it. Maybe, and this is pure speculation, Gibson have redesign their neck profiles.
 

mudface

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Just to add to @PauloQS post.

For 2013

Aniline Dye for the backs. (except for natural backs like the R7-R6-R4)

Custombucker pickups

Hide glue for the body to neck joint.

No truss rod condom

New pearloid Kluson single row stamp on back tuners

Back to a one piece fretboard. 2012 models had a Bi-layered (2 piece) fretboard. Though not all 2012s had them.


For 2014

Same as 2013 except hide glue was used for the fretboard to neck join as well.

There was actually three models for 2015

The continuing run of 2014 models with the long neck tenon with 2014 serial numbers like .... 942000 for R9s and 842000 for R8s as examples.... were actually made in 2015..... I really don't know what the transition serial number would be when they crossed over from 2014 to 2015 as they still used the '14 year code X4XXXXX... no space after the 4 because they reached over 1000 produced in 2014.

The extended run of 2014s was because the CS models tanked before they reached the stores.... Dealers didn't want to buy these models because of the short tenon and higher mark up from the 2014 model. CS models can still be had for brand new 4 years later.

The CS model as mentioned,... basically a 2014 model with a short tenon.

Then the True Historic model............ with the previous 2013/2014 upgrades...... AND

Double carve neck

Double carve top

True Historic Plastics

True Historic pickup covers

Thinner hand wet sanded finish

Thinner Holly headstock Veneer

Hide glued maple top/body join

Smaller vintage correct fret wire

Jumbo price tag.
 
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jktxs

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Same as 2013 except hide glue was used for the neck to body joint.
It's the other way round. '13 was hide glue for the neck joint, '14 and later for everything else.
2013 literature from MF
In addition to these classic ingredients, the 1958 Les Paul Standard Reissue also benefits from Gibson Custom's 20th Anniversary Specifications, newly adopted for 2013. These include a one-piece rosewood fingerboard, Kluson Deluxe machine heads, hot-hide glue neck fit, a Historic Truss Rod assembly with no tubing, accurate body and fingerboard binding color, new Custom Buckers created in the image of the original PAFs, and period-correct Aniline dye beneath its nitrocellulose lacquer finish.
 

jktxs

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2017
- TH parts and specs, minus a few stuff like wet sanding and rolled fretboard edges became standard issue for all Rs
- 2016 specs with R serials were still being produced
- Carmelita top carve
- 2017 LP standard was a 'greatest hits' sort of model with R9 specs
- Slight gap between neck pickup and fretboard

2018
- Two stepped truss rod cover
- Carmelita neck carve for R9s
- "TH58" neck carve for R8s (supposedly from Slash first standard - A thinner, R9-esque profile)
- No gap between neck pickup and fretboard
- Jescar FW50078 frets for R7, R8 (some like the '57 custom still got the medium jumbos)
- Braz run (US only?) for early 2018
- Untinted lacquer for (very) early 2018

2019
- Unpotted CBs
- Logo placement and silkscreen font tweak
- PIO caps
- vintage audio taper CTS pots
- Indian Rosewood or Pau Ferro fretboard
- Last block inlay size correction and pearloid kluson tips for '50s customs
 
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DanD

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Add to the above that TH was CNCd twice for the top carve and neck. This was to allow for less final hand sanding on the slack belt. Seems that if done too agressively the slack belt will eat away at the top carve. Gibson modeled a '59 burst for the neck and top carve. These guitars were very similar with tighter tolerances.

Halfway thru '17 Gibson dropped TH and the double carve and wet sanding which was too time consuming and went to the 'Carmelita' carve for the top. Many like this carve as it is more pronounced than the TH carve.

Also fret size on the TH models was more vintage correct (smaller wire) and many more folks complained than rejoiced.
 
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PauloQS

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2017
- TH parts and specs, minus a few stuff like wet sanding and rolled fretboard edges became standard issue for all Rs
- 2016 specs with R serials were still being produced
- Carmelita top carve
- 2017 LP standard was a 'greatest hits' sort of model with R9 specs
- Slight gap between neck pickup and fretboard

2018
- Two stepped truss rod cover
- Carmelita neck carve for R9s
- "TH58" neck carve for R8s (supposedly from Slash first standard - A thinner, R9-esque profile)
- No gap between neck pickup and fretboard
- Jescar FW50078 frets for R7, R8 (some like the '57 custom still got the medium jumbos)
- Braz run (US only?) for early 2018
- Untinted lacquer for (very) early 2018

2019
- Unpotted CBs
- Logo placement and silkscreen font tweak
- PIO caps
- vintage audio taper CTS pots
- Indian Rosewood or Pau Ferro fretboard
- Last block inlay size correction and pearloid kluson tips for '50s customs
Nice addition. Just a small clarification, the only model with choice of Indian Rosewood or Bolivian Rosewood is the R9. As far as I know, other RIs are Indian Rosewood, except for some LP Custom, which have ebony fretboard.

Edit: I’m keeping my original comment for context purposes, but the edited striked portion was proven inaccurate by @jktxs.
 
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jktxs

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Just a small clarification, the only model with choice of Indian Rosewood or Bolivian Rosewood is the R9.
I've seen PF boards on most of them... LP Specials, R7s, R8s, R9s, R0s. The pilot Pau Ferro run were goldtops, plus seeing how they aren't specifically M2M models it's safe to assume PF is available on all custom shop models.
 

mudface

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It's the other way round. '13 was hide glue for the neck joint, '14 and later for everything else.
2013 literature from MF
Thank you @jktxs ............ i have made the corrections. :cheers:
 

PauloQS

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I've seen PF boards on most of them... LP Specials, R7s, R8s, R9s, R0s. The pilot Pau Ferro run were goldtops, plus seeing how they aren't specifically M2M models it's safe to assume PF is available on all custom shop models.
Thank you for the clarification. I was going off Gibson’s product page, but you’re absolutely right.
 

coldengray

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Don't forget "aged inlays" for 2019.

Personally I think some of the best Historic Les Pauls ever made were done in 2013.
 

Truth011

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I have several Les Pauls, but only one Historic. Its a 2000 that I've modified quite a bit. I really haven't kept up with all the changes over recent years, but vaguely aware that they continued the pattern of slight changes every couple of years to make them more "vintage accurate", then did a couple of years of a "True Historic" that was supposed to be pretty dead on accurate (except I guess no Brazilian boards), and now back to "Custom Shop reissues"? Could one of you gurus update me on some of the broad details of changes to the Historic line over this time period along the template of the sticky "Historic Changes '93 - '07" thread? Thanks!
The BIG change years after you bought your 2000 historic were 2003,2009 and 2013 with little changes each year along the way. I have found 2009-2011 to be consistently great guitars although others like the newer specs and custom buckers on the 2013+ guitars.
 

DanD

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I've had some extremely nice Historics from '11. But they've all been supplanted by '15 and up models.

Nothing was wrong with any of the '11s. They were all better than my previous pre '09 LPs. But again the newer ones are just a bit better than the '11s ...and even tho 2 of those '11s were very special guitars [limited run Dave Carpenter] the newer guitars were, to me, just a touch more polished.

The rolled binding makes a huge difference to me along with the additional attention to the fret work. The CBs are just icing on the cake.
 

Wizard of Ozz

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2016: Neck joint and rosewood fingerboard attached with Hyde-glue. (Maple top still attached to the body with Franklin Tite-Bond glue).

2017: Neck joint, rosewood fingerboard and maple top all attached with Hyde-glue.
-No more "R" serial numbers, return to usual serial number nomenclature
-Aged/yellowed "Gibson" pearlized headstock logo returns
 

DanD

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2016: Neck joint and rosewood fingerboard attached with Hyde-glue. (Maple top still attached to the body with Franklin Tite-Bond glue).

2017: Neck joint, rosewood fingerboard and maple top all attached with Hyde-glue.
-No more "R" serial numbers, return to usual serial number nomenclature
-Aged/yellowed "Gibson" pearlized headstock logo returns
That's all kinds of wrong.

'13 neck joint hyde glue.

'14 all hyde glue.

'16 R for non TH guitars.

'17 no R models end of TH.
 

lpfan1980

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I have a qusation is a 2000 Historic a Historic Historic or a Vintage Vintage copy? :p
 

Wizard of Ozz

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That's all kinds of wrong.

'13 neck joint hyde glue.

'14 all hyde glue.

'16 R for non TH guitars.

'17 no R models end of TH.

2014 were not all Hyde glue. Check your info. Only the neck joint and fretboard. The maple cap was attached with Franklin Tite-Bond glue. 2017 was the start of all Hyde glue.
 


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