Help with achieving a joe perry 1959 faded tobacco burst finish

DTJ12777

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Hello, I am a amateur luthier and have plans to start a new build shortly, my plans are to build a replica of the joe perry/slash les paul that was used in november rain. i use Keda Dyes and was wondering if any luthiers or guitar refinishers could give me some advice on how to achieve that look.
i have attached pictures of the look i am going for as well as pictures of my work in hopes of advice on anything i am doing wrong. Thanks for the read :)
 

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ARandall

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Unfortunately the best teacher is experience, plus trial and error.

Old finishes are very hard to get right, as there are aspects of the clear yellowing that just can't be replicated with dyes. Most replicas use aniline dyes as they will fade the right way....something that you probably will need to do to get the shading right.
The centre yellow will be a strong yellow mix with some amber to get it away from being flourescent in look over maple.
The typical cherry is mostly strong red with a couple of drops of blue - as over yellow the red will become orange. To this you'll need to add a good dose of brown. You might even have to do a couple of passes of pure brown on the perimeter.
A few tests on scrap of the same colour as maple (pine is good for this) will give you the right coverage and strength.
 

cooljuk

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Alex - is it the case that some reds faded away in UV, while others darkened up? ...or is it that there were other darker parts of the pigment, along with the red, that just resisted fading better and stayed behind to create the dark bursts?
 

ARandall

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The bit that I have found in my small experiments is that the yellow and the red are both reactive. The centre gets a straw-like quality, but the outside becomes much less red.....however there is still a portion of the red spectrum there which enriches the outer colour even if you go for dirty lemon.

<----This avatar pic is now the LH guitar in the below shot
DSC00168.JPG

You'll notice that the inner is more bland, and relies on the (less intense) amber much more. The outer is still coloured with a hint of the red making the edge like a rich but less intense honey. As a comparison, the RH one is a more intense version of the same type of burst - this one more intended to stay as it is now.

I think tobacco has a bit more blue as well than the typical cherry - its like some of those TB's from back in the day were more like a less intense oxblood at the edge. But certainly how they look now is as much of the heavy ambering of the clear as much as the initial spray colour.
 

cooljuk

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I had a real hard time getting the tobacco on a '54 style Strat dark enough without making it blue. I've still got a great deal of leaning to do, regarding predicting colors, though. I may be imagining this, but freshly mixed colors in a jar seem to "evolve" on me over a day or two while just sitting in the jar.
 

marijnsloth

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AlexGT

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Some people say the Perry Burst is a three tone sunburst. I would spray it like 335 with dark brown at the outside. Of course the red should have a few drops of blue dye. Everything with aniline dyes except the yellow and the amber. I would use a lightfast dye for the yellow. I think Gibson has used it in those days too. The fading of the yellow just looks wrong. I would also age the lacquer for the clear coats in the sun before you spray it, so you don't need so much amber.
 


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