Help Me Understand the "Reissue" Craze

[thinkgreen]

My sg is a totally different animal to my les Paul.
Handmade dosn't neseccarly mean you have to hand tools to prepare wood. Cnc
, band saw, overhead router Or any other power tool or machine is an aid that is used by craftsman to make an end product.

 

[freebyrd 69]

I just don´t understand why people think that CS guitars, in this case Reissues, are handbuilt. They are NOT. And the Custom Shop is not a place where a handfull of luthiers carefully handcarve that "mystic" and so much superior tonewoods. It is a factory where there is an assembly line operated by trained workers that with the help of machines build these guitars. Are they superior to the Gibson USA line? YES. Are they that superior that justifies the huge price difference? NO. Are they worth it? IT DEPENDS. If you can afford them, you will convince yourself that they are. If you can´t, they will just look like overpriced guitars. And on a side note, why do people value so much what wood is used on a SOLID BODY guitar? Do you play the guitar or just want an expensive piece of furniture? Do you know how sound works? It travels through air, in a electric solid guitar there is no space where the sound can go so in other words it really DOESN´T MATTER at all what kind of wood is used as long as it is solid. Also the reason why Gibson came up with the SG, was that the Les Paul just wasn´t good enough and wasn´t selling. So if you want an improved Les Paul but don´t want any of the improvements that have been made over the years, just get yourself a Gibson SG (Les Paul 2.0). It has been available since 1961, you know?

Interesting. Have you been to the Custom Shop? I have. There are several aspects of the guitar that are done by hand. I have pictures if you'd care to see them. While their jobs may be specific rather than 1 person building them from start to finish, it is far from "assembly line".

Wood absolutely matters on a solid body guitar. Ever seen Paul Reed Smith speak and demonstrate on the subject? I have. I would certainly take his word. He is very knowledgeable on the subject.

You are correct on one thing. "Worth" is in the eye of the beholder, but, don't be a hater and get into the "only if you can afford one" crowd.

I don't see many SG's on stage these days, Trucks not withstanding. I do see a fair number of real players playing recent model LP reissues though. Haynes, Bonamassa, Gibbons, Rossington, Simo, etc..

Nice rant, but I would take your SG and go home now. Lol

 

[RAG7890]

.........we could run a parallel Thread, "Help me understand crazy Reissues".

 

[RAG7890]

Interesting. Have you been to the Custom Shop? I have. There are several aspects of the guitar that are done by hand. I have pictures if you'd care to see them. While their jobs may be specific rather than 1 person building them from start to finish, it is far from "assembly line".

Wood absolutely matters on a solid body guitar. Ever seen Paul Reed Smith speak and demonstrate on the subject? I have. I would certainly take his word. He is very knowledgeable on the subject.

You are correct on one thing. "Worth" is in the eye of the beholder, but, don't be a hater and get into the "only if you can afford one" crowd.

I don't see many SG's on stage these days, Trucks not withstanding. I do see a fair number of real players playing recent model LP reissues though. Haynes, Bonamassa, Gibbons, Rossington, Simo, etc..

Nice rant, but I would take your SG and go home now. Lol

Jon you do know that Billy's Gibsons are not made by Gibson, don't you?

Cheers, Rudi.

 

[Greg's Guitars]

A lot can be said in the RI market, some of the first RI guitars were when Jimmy Wallace brought his burst to Gibson to have it accurately recreated, since then Gibson (and others) have tried to recreate what was lost as years went by and more machines rather than craftsmen made these iconic guitars, I personally do not actively pursue RI guitars as there are more 50's era guitars to be had at the same or sometimes at a lesser price ( bursts not included) than reissues.

 

[lpthomas]

I just don´t understand why people think that CS guitars, in this case Reissues, are handbuilt. They are NOT. And the Custom Shop is not a place where a handfull of luthiers carefully handcarve that "mystic" and so much superior tonewoods. It is a factory where there is an assembly line operated by trained workers that with the help of machines build these guitars. Are they superior to the Gibson USA line? YES. Are they that superior that justifies the huge price difference? NO. Are they worth it? IT DEPENDS. If you can afford them, you will convince yourself that they are. If you can´t, they will just look like overpriced guitars. And on a side note, why do people value so much what wood is used on a SOLID BODY guitar? Do you play the guitar or just want an expensive piece of furniture? Do you know how sound works? It travels through air, in a electric solid guitar there is no space where the sound can go so in other words it really DOESN´T MATTER at all what kind of wood is used as long as it is solid. Also the reason why Gibson came up with the SG, was that the Les Paul just wasn´t good enough and wasn´t selling. So if you want an improved Les Paul but don´t want any of the improvements that have been made over the years, just get yourself a Gibson SG (Les Paul 2.0). It has been available since 1961, you know?

Just my opinion: I don't understand why people feel they uncovered some kind of secret when they state that even Custom Shop guitars are not hand built. It's all a matter of definition. Gibson USA guitars are built by hand, aren't they!? That Custom Shop ones are too, does not make them less appealing.

Do I care if — by definition of some people — my guitar is built by hand or not? NO. And, in my own mind, NOT built by and implies there are next to no humans touching these guitars. Simply not true. It's all about the definition and opinions. Not about reality.

If the staff at Gibson Custom Shop built one guitar at a time by hand, the variation you'd see in products might be accurate, albeit for historics only, and would certainly attract a lot of criticism. The debate about the whole hand-built thing is, in my opinion, very useless to define or talk about the concept of a Custom Shop. Nothing in Gibson's marketing leads anyone to believe that a guitar is started and finished on one and the same workbench.

I agree: They are superior to US guitars. At least in my subjective definition of superior. I strongly disagree when it comes to your assessment of price. What even the most expensive Gibson Custom Shop guitars cost is what some people spend on one stupid pool vacation! It's all subjective. In the grand scheme of things, there's nothing wrong about a manufacturer selling guitars for 10k. Way more stupid stuff can be and is bought for this money.

Do these guitars justify the price *differences*? In my personal opinion: Absolutely! Even in extreme cases. I cannot look at an old burst and then appreciate a US Standard. I dislike the big headstock, the black dots on the neck binding (looks rather cheap to me), the sunburst finish, the look of the mahagony back and neck, the pickup shapes, the overall selection of finishes and a lot more about a US Standard. It just doesn't do it for me. This, some may say, is very superficial shallow. I know. Or is it? But I, for myself, can easily justify a high difference in price that way. I'm not even going into the debate about tone and ageing.

"If you can afford them, you will convince yourself that they are [worth it]."

These guitars are just what they are. Nothing more and nothing less. If you like it, you like it. I think it's useless to ask if a certain guitar is worth it. Is a LP Studio for 1k worth it to me? No. 1k dollars to much for what I myself would get out of it.

I'd gladly buy a 10.000 dollar guitar from Gibson if I had the money, because, for me, that would be a great thing. Why would it be expensive furniture? It is what it is. It does not need to be put into some kind of context. The world is too random for this.

I at least hope that the Custom Shop will continue to exist for many years to come. In a few years I'll hopefully be able to have one or two guitars built via M2M, because, for me, that should be well worth it. I'd rather skip a few (or all) pool vacations.

 

[PierM]

Do you know how sound works? It travels through air, in a electric solid guitar there is no space where the sound can go so in other words it really DOESN´T MATTER at all what kind of wood is used as long as it is solid. Also the reason why Gibson came up with the SG, was that the Les Paul just wasn´t good enough and wasn´t selling. So if you want an improved Les Paul but don´t want any of the improvements that have been made over the years, just get yourself a Gibson SG (Les Paul 2.0). It has been available since 1961, you know?

Nah....but cheers, man. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[kmasters68]

By which rights should a modern Gibson be an improvement over an older vintage 50s Gibson? Here's something to ponder, the guys who made the original Les Paul models in the 1950s probably cut their teeth on the guitar making craft in the 1930s and 40s during the depression and WW2, while making archtop jazzers and acoustic guitars. Within a short 5 years of producing Gibsons FIRST solidbody electric they had perfected the instrument we all know and love (BURSTS!) and stopped making it altogether 2 years later. There were workers who picked out the best timbers to use, workers who did an awful lot of hard hand work shaping and assembling and finishing these particularly incredible instruments and it just so happens the best humbuckers EVER were invented right in the middle of the production run.
A lot of discussion about why the original Sunburst Les Pauls are so much better than anything made since by Gibson revolves around the fact that back 65yrs ago Gibson had better quality old growth woods that were well seasoned and dried before being turned into instruments. It seems almost universally accepted that that's the main reason for the differences between new and vintage Les Pauls. I OTOH am not so sure that explains 100% of those differences. I truly believe, given the quality of woods and materials available in 2017, if you supplied it to those Gibson factory workers in 1959 the results would still be absolutely stunning Les Paul Bursts. These guys were trained different, they had different values, different work ethic and pride in what they were doing. Simple as that. They weren't hired off the street one day and started making Bursts a month later.

Well, you're brave... I don't disagree let alone have an opinion since I've never played an original era LP. But I have read a lot of these posts and speculation gets stated as fact and fact is disputed as folklore. I'll pop some popcorn.

 

[BBD]

Do you know how sound works? It travels through air, in a electric solid guitar there is no space where the sound can go so in other words it really DOESN´T MATTER at all what kind of wood is used as long as it is solid.

That's not really correct, joey. Sound is vibrational energy. It travels through air as compression waves called 'sound waves' and through solids (wood) as compression waves called 'vibration'. The density of a solid (wood) will affect how efficiently (or not) it transmits vibrational energy. In a guitar, wood density determines how efficiently vibrational energy can escape from the string. This is why wood density affects the loudness, brightness (darkness) and sustain of the amplified signal. There are further very subtle tonal shadings from the wood as different densities of timber transmit different frequencies from the vibrating string more (less) efficiently. Think of this like a set of frequency filters.

 

[GearHo]

A guitar is the sum of all parts, and the biggest part is you. I sound like me more than hyde glue, or truss rod condoms, even the highest end pickups make me still sound like me. Your guitar is just an extension of your tone, not the creation of it.

 

[kmasters68]

I love my '68RI, but not more than my Norlins. Variety is the spice of life.

 

[RAG7890]

 

[asapmaz]

lpthomas,
Why you gotta poopoo pool vacations man?
They're the greatest!
A historic lp, can't take to your grave.
The countless memories from a pool vacation, that you can take to your grave.
Just messin with you!
How about ocean vacations?

 

[lpthomas]

lpthomas,
Why you gotta poopoo pool vacations man?
They're the greatest!
A historic lp, can't take to your grave.
The countless memories from a pool vacation, that you can take to your grave.
Just messin with you!
How about ocean vacations?

Good point! Should have said expensive-pool-at-Miami-hotel-esque vacations. I can agree on the ocean or lakes!

 

[Shawn Lutz]

Play a few of them and get back to us. They are some of the best guitars built in my opinion. I only have 2 but they are excellent guitars that I bought used that were roughly what people pay for new Standards or Tradtionals. The a lot of R9's are beautiful recreations of a 1959 Les Paul, yeah they are pricey but have you priced a REAL vintage 59? As far as craftsmanship, tone and playability goes they are top notch. Honestly not a lot of advancement in that regard...so many people spend way too much time and money chasing that but some of the best recordings were done on old vintage, guitars, amps and pedals

 

[KenG]

Perhaps I'm not understanding the definition of a reissue or the concept of the craftsmanship of Gibson was better 50 years ago. Is a reissue basically a new guitar built from old specs? Is this a persona taste thing? If so, why do they cost so much more than a Gibson with modern technology, which by all rights should make an improved version of the old guitar.

Or is it as simple as if you want to have the sound of a 60's guitar, which being better or worse would be personal opinion, you either buy a 60's vintage guitar or a new one built to old 60's specifications?

Thanks

It's probably already been suggested but maybe you should just try a couple and see for yourself!

 

[thinkgreen]

I have to say it all gets very passionate from both sides of the fence. If those that are truly disgusted by custom shop reissues because they are over priced then the same could be said for any Gibson! Why not just buy a epiphone for a fraction of the cost and be done with it. So there is a bit of snobbery at all levels lol. I have a epi lp and wouldnt get rid of it for love nor money.

 

[gibsonguitar1988]

For me it comes down to the fact that the Les Pauls I like are vintage spec, and with the appointments that so happen to be on a Historic Reissue. I find they are what I'm looking for.

I own two of them, and I wish I owned more with the future of the CS in question. I very well may own another at some point. I also have a Gibson Les Paul Classic from the year 2000 that I modified to be what I'm into, and it's a good guitar. I like the used Gibsons from yesteryear.

They play great, sound great, and while I might change the pickups to something more vintage correct, I still feel they are the best guitars Gibson is making. I personally have no interest in the guitars the main Gibson line is making. The Traditionals, when they first came out were pretty nice but the Standards and such they are making now are just simply not up to my standards.

 

[Sct13]

I love mine....that's all there is ...

 

[Lebond]

My 2 historics inspire me to want to play more, for me that is what the so called 'reissue craze' is all about...