help buying my old man first les paul r9 vs standard?

LeonC

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I'd also suggest the thinner neck profile for another reason -- I think you're more likely to get closer to JP's tone with the thinner neck. JP's #1 was apparently a late '59 or early '60 as it had a profile more like what we think of as the '60s slim carve today. IME, that will have an affect on the tone. You can read about it a bit more here. Great video with JP discussing the guitar as well.

And also, I want to compliment you and doing something so thoughtful for your dad!
 

vaguely

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a Les Paul is a Les Paul. the differences between the countless models, years, examples out there is relatively subtle, when compared to say, a Stratocaster. The feel of a Les Paul is really special and singular. I'm no expert but I have had 4 examples over the years and all of them had MUCH more in common than not. Need a fast neck? as everyone says, the 1960's profile or "slim-taper" will do it. A '59 neck is probably a mistake if it has to be slim. My hunch is that any guitar you present to him will blow him away, provided it's a Gibson Les Paul. As others have said: the classic is a great choice. I had a 1991 Classic and the neck was super slim. I also have '78 Standard and that neck is not huge by any means. I'd say look at guitars that you think will fit the bill esthetically. What is gonna blow his mind when he first lays eyes on it? Wildwood has an amazing reputation and impressive relationship with Gibson. They are known for having great stuff. I've had a great experience with Emerald City Guitars in Seattle. They know their stuff and seem like straight shooters. I would not advise overthinking the finer details between Les Pauls. Of course those differences are endlessly debatable and valid, but again, subtle when compared to any Fender. Hope that's helpful, and wow, nice gift!
 
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I’d look for a R0 or G0 used, the G0 can usually be found a little cheaper with a plain top (usually) but are a good bargain, special run made for Guitar Center & I’ve played and liked several used ones at my local GC in the past, you can find them in that price range used, my 2009 R0 is beautiful & cost just a bit above 4K two years ago & I absolutely love it.
View attachment 511169

That's a beautiful guitar! Nice top, it's not too ostentatious and in my opinion has the perfect amount of flame.
 

monstruo_loco

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That's a beautiful guitar! Nice top, it's not too ostentatious and in my opinion has the perfect amount of flame.
Thanks! I didn’t want to set it back down when I looked at it, then after I played it decided I was going to add close to 2K with a trade-in baseball bat neck R7 to make it mine, never regretted that decision.
 

cherrysunburst00

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Early 00's Standards came in "50s" and "60's" neck profiles. I have an 04 Standard whose neck is comparable to my '10 R0 50th (V.3) Anni

Where are you located?
 

dasherf17

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Agree with this ^ with one question; does your Dad have a preference in neck types? Neck thickness and profile can be an important factor in how someone bonds with a Les Paul, but for all other reasons I’d go for a used R9, R8 (usually thicker than R9), or R0 (different possibilities for necks - V1 thickest but thinner than R9, V2 is thinner than V1)
Custom Shop models (R0, R8, & R9 just feel and sound superior to USA models (Standard/Classic/Traditional) based on my limited experience.
...and just for snits n gigs, has he ever mentioned flame or plain tops?
 

cooljuk

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urhh i went down that rabbit hole tonight, wiring is about splitting the humbuckers? but some say he did that mod after the zeppelin days? and pick ups confused me even more, PAFs/T tops, i found a seymour duncan set called whole lotta humbucker...
It's not that complicated. Here's the two main points you need to know:

  • Page's #1 Les Paul never had any modified switching options. It had both original PAFs until after the Australian tour in 1972, at which point the bridge humbucker was replaced with a T-Top. The neck pickup remained the original PAF and the wiring stayed the same stock wiring, as always.

  • Page's #2 Les Paul had no modified switching options installed until AFTER Led Zeppelin was over. That wiring was installed, with four push pull pots on the controls, and an additional two push/push switches under the pickguard, during Page's time playing in The Firm (1984).

Because Zeppelin was so absolutely huge, there's tons of photos and videos of these mods to confirm the details and timing of when they happened. It's not like the Beano album or Greeny Burst, where things were happening behind closed doors and not being documented, so we're left with speculation and few clues. Page's guitars, since Zeppelin, have been hugely public and very well documented.


The Duncan WLHB set (and there are two different versions of that, fwiw) is not made to replicate ANY of Page's pickups in any of his guitars in Led Zeppelin. I think it's supposed to be a modern take on the newer Seymour Duncan pickups that he had put in his #2 Les Paul sometime later (1990s, perhaps?). @DADGAD can probably tell you more about that. Duncan's attempt to associate that pickup set with Led Zeppelin via marketing and branding is as shady as it is confusing to users.
 

DADGAD

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It's not that complicated. Here's the two main points you need to know:

  • Page's #1 Les Paul never had any modified switching options. It had both original PAFs until after the Australian tour in 1972, at which point the bridge humbucker was replaced with a T-Top. The neck pickup remained the original PAF and the wiring stayed the same stock wiring, as always.

  • Page's #2 Les Paul had no modified switching options installed until AFTER Led Zeppelin was over. That wiring was installed, with four push pull pots on the controls, and an additional two push/push switches under the pickguard, during Page's time playing in The Firm (1984).

Because Zeppelin was so absolutely huge, there's tons of photos and videos of these mods to confirm the details and timing of when they happened. It's not like the Beano album or Greeny Burst, where things were happening behind closed doors and not being documented, so we're left with speculation and few clues. Page's guitars, since Zeppelin, have been hugely public and very well documented.


The Duncan WLHB set (and there are two different versions of that, fwiw) is not made to replicate ANY of Page's pickups in any of his guitars in Led Zeppelin. I think it's supposed to be a modern take on the newer Seymour Duncan pickups that he had put in his #2 Les Paul sometime later (1990s, perhaps?). @DADGAD can probably tell you more about that. Duncan's attempt to associate that pickup set with Led Zeppelin via marketing and branding is as shady as it is confusing to users.
From what I gathered about the Duncan WLH set, here’s the history. These were the first artist set that Maricela Juarez (MJ) wound when she started working at Seymour Duncan circa Mar/May 1982. She and Seymour are copious note takers and she confirmed with me via email that the specs have never changed. 8.2k neck, 8.78k bridge, both AL5. These were wound for Jimmy as he was preparing to go on tour most likely with The Firm. It is most logical that thy went into #3 as he wanted to use a guitar that didn’t directly tie him to Zeppelin and also No.3 was also the test mule. B Bender, ARP Avatar etc.... No. 2 seems to have kept the same pickups since the 70’s.

The WLH custom shop were a limited to 150 sets in the UK in 2012, but the custom shop will wind you any pickup you want that’s on file to spec (Joe B, Skinnerburst, WLH)

The regular SH-18 WLH are similar in spec but to my ears sound different. I only used a bridge SH-18 but there is a difference. I preferred the CS version. lots of Page flavours out there and the best advice is try them out. It’s part of the fun of tone chasing if you have the will, time and $$.
 

DBDM

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Seems to me that what you want is an R0 with a V2 or V3 neck. If he likes thinner necks, at 70, then he likes thinner necks. I would not get him an R9 nor R0 V1 (thick necks). Also, if he, for some reason, wants a Standard (or Epiphone), he will still love the R0. But if he wants a very nice guitar, he will not be thrilled with a Standard.
Today's Standards are certainly very good guitars, but today's Custom shops are GREAT guitars. I feel like todays R9s and R0s are likely the best guitars made in the last 60 years (or since the end of 1960). This does not imply that there are not other good guitars--there are. But R0s are GREAT guitars.
 

cooljuk

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From what I gathered about the Duncan WLH set, here’s the history. These were the first artist set that Maricela Juarez (MJ) wound when she started working at Seymour Duncan circa Mar/May 1982. She and Seymour are copious note takers and she confirmed with me via email that the specs have never changed. 8.2k neck, 8.78k bridge, both AL5. These were wound for Jimmy as he was preparing to go on tour most likely with The Firm. It is most logical that thy went into #3 as he wanted to use a guitar that didn’t directly tie him to Zeppelin and also No.3 was also the test mule. B Bender, ARP Avatar etc.... No. 2 seems to have kept the same pickups since the 70’s.

The WLH custom shop were a limited to 150 sets in the UK in 2012, but the custom shop will wind you any pickup you want that’s on file to spec (Joe B, Skinnerburst, WLH)

The regular SH-18 WLH are similar in spec but to my ears sound different. I only used a bridge SH-18 but there is a difference. I preferred the CS version. lots of Page flavours out there and the best advice is try them out. It’s part of the fun of tone chasing if you have the will, time and $$.
Thank, bro! I knew you were more keen on the modern Duncan / Page association.

At one point I had one of the original UK WLHB sets and also one of the early US-made sets at the shop, at the same time. I think one of those sets was your friend Angelo's (I forget his screen name, here), actually. ...or maybe they were yours? Nearly 10 years ago, at this point, man! Time flies!

The UK and US WLHB sets not only sounded very obviously different, but they also had different electrical properties and were made of different parts. I'm sure I have some more notes of measurements but I don't remember anything interesting about them, off hand. My personal interest was always Zeppelin-era Page. That's also around the same time I was buying and sacrificing PAFs ("dark days for history / glorious days for the future", I liked to say), including a 1959 one I got from you at the same time (which was also Ed A's PAF, I think, and ended up being a contributor to my PAF-1 set), so those Duncans were just a little drop in the ocean, to me, compared to what else was going on at the time.
 

DADGAD

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Thank, bro! I knew you were more keen on the modern Duncan / Page association.

At one point I had one of the original UK WLHB sets and also one of the early US-made sets at the shop, at the same time. I think one of those sets was your friend Angelo's (I forget his screen name, here), actually. ...or maybe they were yours? Nearly 10 years ago, at this point, man! Time flies!

The UK and US WLHB sets not only sounded very obviously different, but they also had different electrical properties and were made of different parts. I'm sure I have some more notes of measurements but I don't remember anything interesting about them, off hand. My personal interest was always Zeppelin-era Page. That's also around the same time I was buying and sacrificing PAFs ("dark days for history / glorious days for the future", I liked to say), including a 1959 one I got from you at the same time (which was also Ed A's PAF, I think, and ended up being a contributor to my PAF-1 set), so those Duncans were just a little drop in the ocean, to me, compared to what else was going on at the time.
That PAF first originated from Kim at HM, then to Ed.A, the to me and then to you. Quite a lineage! Lol.
 

guitaroholic

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I only browsed the first page so maybe weight has already come up. Will he play standing up?
Or if pulling it out of the case or stand makes a different. Reissues will be lighter due to lighter wood. Current Standards will be heaviest. Other models may have some weight relief. Check specs online.
My most recent USA model is 2011 and like the 2005 and 1992 my biggest beef with USA was the frets. Might be different now but they used to be school bus shaped with very flat tops. I had all of mine recrowned. That and a good setup gets USA models playing pretty well.
On a sinister note, once you inherit it (hopefully in a very distant future) you’ll probably easily get the price difference back if you sell it. Which you might not, but the value is there.
 

kvxmg

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so we tried the 60s classic today and he loved it! i think thats the go! besides some rewind jppost72 pickups is there anything else worth upgrading on the guitar to get it closer to R0 spec or worth while upgrades
 

Iain

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I’m probably too late with this post, and I may have missed something. However, if I’m not too late try find a Les Paul Traditional. I got one as a bargain ( badly fixed neck break, which I got sorted) and it’s amazing. Far,far better than an Epiphone Standard I had which had been upgraded with Seymour Duncan’s and even better than my old 1980 Gibson Les Paul Standard. Lovely finish too.
 

dro

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Page go his No.1 used and repaired headstock neck break, from Joe Walsh. No telling how many times this thing has been broken. And electronics have been changed over and over. I like the R0 over the 59 RI Mo
1960RI.JPG
 

DBDM

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I was fortunate enough to be given a VERY nice guitar by my wife and son for my 50th birthday (it was a very special limited Martin Custom Shop guitar) and I was very touched. I think it would likely be the first thing I grabbed in a fire. Hoepfully I would have time to grab a few things but suffice it to say it is one of my most prized possessions.
 


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